The Tölt Tales
Welcome to The Tölt Tales podcast.
This podcast is dedicated to our best friend the Icelandic horses. The show features interviews with breeders, trainers, riders, and enthusiasts who share their knowledge, experiences, and love for these remarkable horses.
Music by Cob
The Tölt Tales
Episode 2 - Linda Andersson
For our second episode we invited Linda Andersson, a veterinarian and rider. Linda is specialised in lameness and take a special interest in Icelandic horses.
During this episode you will hear about Linda’s journey to become a veterinarian, detection of horse’s lameness and specific challenges coming with owning an Icelandic horse.
We hope you will appreciate our second episode as much as we enjoyed making it and we are looking forward to our 3rd episode next month.
You want to know more about our guest here some useful links,
Music by Cob.
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Hello everybody, and welcome to The Tölt Tales Podcast. Hello, Linda.
Linda:Hello.
Lionel:How are you?
Linda:I'm fine, thank you.
Lionel:For the people who don't know you, what are you doing in your life?
Linda:Oh, I'm a really horse girl.
Lionel:Okay.
Linda:So most of my days are with horses. I work as a veterinarian, only with horses. So I work with horses, and when I'm not at work, I have my own horses.
Lionel:Where do you work exactly?
Linda:I work at Saxthorps Hestklinik, outside of Landskrona in Skåne.
Lionel:In south of Sweden?
Linda:Yes, very much the south of Sweden.
Lionel:You say you work with horses. We know that veterinarian has specialties. Why did you pick horses?
Linda:Oh, I don't really know. It's just always been horses. My parents, they can't really understand it either, but they said that when I was very young, all I wanted to be was a veterinarian, and I wanted to work with horses, and I wanted to have my own horses. And none of my other family is a horsey person. So they're like, okay, we got a weird kid.
Lionel:Since when do you ride then?
Linda:Since I was seven.
Lionel:Okay, okay, so you did start early to ride.
Linda:Yes, they allowed me to ride. And they have just waited for me to quit my horse face. And now they have just admitted that, okay, she will never grow out of it.
Lionel:Can you tell us about where did you study? Did you went abroad? Did you stay around Sweden?
Linda:Oh, I studied in Copenhagen, and when I was done with my studies, so then I went to Umeå and I thought, well, I will live here for a year, and then I will come back to the south of Sweden. And then I stayed for eight years in Umeå.
Lionel:Okay.
Linda:So I really liked it. First, I was a Distriksveterinärnära for six years, but in Umeå, I only worked with large animals, and we also had a horse clinic. So I had half of my time was with horses at the clinic, and I only had to do horses and cows. So I didn't have to do anything with the small animals. So there I worked for six years, and then I got a job as a chief at the Evidencia in Umeå, at the horse clinic there. So then I worked there for two years.
Lionel:I have to ask, is it interesting to work as a district veterinarian?
Linda:Yes. It's really interesting. Some days.
Lionel:Weekends and Sunday at 9 p.m., I guess.
Linda:That's what you mean. But it's a very interesting, very broad work to work for districts veterinarian. You get to do a lot of things. I was called out to do a C-section on a camel. It didn't end up with a C-section, but it was definitely a camel. Yes, it was a camel, and I did get to examine it and everything. Because I love it so much. I do work every fourth or fifth weekend for districts veterinarian. I schedule weekends for them.
Lionel:What does a day look like?
Linda:I love doing leamnesses. So that's what I mostly do every day.
Lionel:On all kinds of horses?
Linda:Yes. I think I have about 20 to 30% Icelandic horses. To do leamnesses on Icelandic horses, you need to know the gaits and you need to know something about the breed.
Lionel:But specifically on Icelandic horses?
Linda:Yes, because they are mixing the gaits and they are mixing the balance and everything. Especially on the five gaited horses, you will say that they are lame when they are just having some balance issues. And you will also miss some leamnesses because it's not shown in the same way as on the three gaited horses.
Lionel:Do you do specific things with the Icelandic horses when you look for leamness?
Linda:I almost always do riding tests. When we have an Icelandic horse booked for a leamness exam, I always book them for a longer time than with the warm bloods. And I almost always ask them to ride the horses, so I get to see them in all the gaits, and especially in the tölt, because some of the leamnesses are only shown in tölt on the rider. I get to test the horse as well, and feel how it feels. And that tells me a lot.
Lionel:Okay, usually we test, and tell me if I'm wrong, usually you will test leamness in trot, right?
Linda:Yes.
Lionel:So testing the leamness in tölt, can you tell us about how does it look like?
Linda:Yes, because I feel that many of the horses have some problems with the balance in the trot, or they don't have the big suspension in the trot, so then they don't show the leamness as well. So then when you ask them to tölt, you get more collection, and you get to see some other leamnesses that's not shown in trot because the lack of collection that most of the horses have in trot. So then you get to see some other things like the stifles, stifle issues and things like that are often more evident in tölt.
Lionel:Okay. Is there a specific issue or a specific type of leamness for Icelandic horses?
Linda:Now we have much more sporty horses. So we have horses that are hypermobile, with long legs and things like that. And then we get some issues with the hypermobility. As we see quite a lot of on junksters problems with the patella. And then you also get some stifle issues because they are hypermobile in the joints. So many horses, before they get strong enough, you have some stifle issues. You also have some fetlock issues in the front because they are also hypermobile in the fetlocks as well. You see some issues in the back and the SI joints, sacroiliac joints, because when you have horses with big gates, if you don't really get them strong enough, and when you have the five gated horses, there are some problems with the SI joints.
Lionel:Do you see also things that disappear?
Linda:Yes, we have a lot less spavin.
Lionel:Spavin, what is that exactly?
Linda:Sput.
Lionel:Okay, yes.
Linda:Yeah, so it's a lot less of that. And we also have some, probably had some issues that we weren't aware of, that just wasn't visible because the horses weren't good enough to show it.
Lionel:Yes, right.
Linda:And if you look at the horses that we have now for riding and compare them with earlier, it's not the same horses. That gives them some new issues, both as riders and as a vet.
Lionel:Yes.
Linda:Because now we have to deal with something. Earlier, we had horses that were a little bit short-legged and stiff, but we don't have that anymore. So we need to start riding horses that are long-legged and hypermobile and learn how to stabilize the horse and don't really ride the same way on the young horses and train them for stability.
Lionel:And as a vet, what kind of advice you will give them? They are more mobile, so I guess they need to put on more muscle, maybe, or more muscle mass?
Linda:Yes, more muscle mass. They need some stability. They need to train their proprioception, because with hypermobility, there also comes a lower proprioception, because they don't really feel the ends of the joint capsules as well. So they don't really have the same proprioception. So you need to train that with a hypermobile horse. So you need to have some more, some slower work. I'm very much for training, some sort of training on the young horses. But not hard training. You need to know, you need to learn the horse stability and the groundwork, so it gets some strength. And then it won't be as heavy for the horse when you start training them more.
Lionel:How giving them more mass or more muscle, give them more stability?
Linda:Some of the muscles that we really need to focus on are, well, the core muscle as well. And we also need on the side of the stifle, like on the hindquarters. You need that muscle that will protect the stifle. That's the muscle that we see, especially on the five gators, that young five gators, that it's very poorly developed, because they do mainly go on forward and not collect as much.
Lionel:OK. What kind of exercise that could help the rider?
Linda:Both training proprioception and some slow work. Slow work, some hill work. So you need up and down and out in the forest. That's very, very good. Some of the horses are very well to work with the water, because that will train exactly those muscles.
Lionel:Is ground also important?
Linda:Yes, if you have horses that are a little bit hypermobile and not strong enough, deep ground is not good.
Lionel:OK.
Linda:Because that will put the leg far out in the stretch.
Lionel:So more harder ground, or mixing, I guess. I guess it's all about mixing, but harder ground for more mobile horses is better. Is there a strong difference between four and five gators?
Linda:Yes, if you do put them on the far out, so you have a strong four gator and a strong five gator, there are some big differences. And there's also big differences as a vet in examining them. The five gators, you do have the more poorly developed trotts usually, and you do have some balance issues when trotting on the lunge. So five gators are also very much needed to do a ridden test, because then you can see some more things that it's not shown completely on the lunge.
Lionel:On the lunge.
Linda:And five gators also have more issues with the back and the SI joints because of their movement pattern.
Lionel:Can you tell a four and a five gators by looking at them?
Linda:Yes, sometimes you can.
Lionel:Yes.
Linda:And sometimes they surprise you.
Lionel:Oh, it's a five gator. No, it's not a five gator. Is there something else that is different apart from leanness? I don't know, like behaviors or issues with others.
Linda:Yes, Icelandic horses are known for being difficult to examine because they don't really show if they are in pain. So they just stand there and like, okay, are you in pain or are you just bored? So they are just standing there until they are almost dead.
Lionel:Okay, and that's compared to big horses, for instance, with more drama queens, maybe?
Linda:Yes, very much more drama queens. But the Icelandic horses are more like, they are just standing there calmly and you need to look very close to see how sick they are.
Lionel:Okay. So it makes your life a bit more complex, I guess.
Linda:Yes. It's like every day when I say I work mainly with most, with much Icelandic horses, they're like, oh, you like to complicate things a little bit more. Yeah. I really love to do, well, as I said, I love to do lameness exams and also to do the Ridden test and just feel the difference because, as I said, mostly I also try to ride them. And then we do the blocks and then we do, so if they are lame somewhere, we do a block and put some local anesthesia in a part of the leg to see where the lameness is from. And then you ride again and you get a different feeling. And you need to know like, oh, why is this different feeling? Is this a different, better feeling? Or is it a different, worse feeling? And then it's like really some detective work. It's a really nice part of work to figure out why the horse is doing something, to figure out how I can help it. And then to see how we can prevent it from coming back and just fall and to be a part of to follow the horse further on and see that it's actually sound and working. That's the best reward.
Lionel:Yes. Is it a lonely job or you get to work with more people around you?
Linda:I have so many people around me.
Lionel:Yes.
Linda:At my clinic, I always have an assistant who works with me.
Lionel:Okay.
Linda:And then we also have a physiotherapist who comes once a week. We have an assistant who works with us that's also doing some massage and chiropractic. Two other veterinary colleagues as well.
Lionel:In the clinic?
Linda:Yes. And we have a ferrier twice a week. So we do have a complete team. And we also can check the saddles as well. So that we actually can get a grip the whole of the equipage. And we have an assistant who is also educated in rider balance.
Lionel:So it's not a lonely job?
Linda:No.
Lionel:No. Far from it.
Linda:Yes.
Lionel:Your clinic is doing some kind of advent calendar for horse people, I would say. Can you tell us about what is the principle of it?
Linda:Yes. So this is the third year we're doing it. So it's one new post per day.
Lionel:Okay.
Linda:And I don't really remember why we did it the first time. And I'm in charge of it, as you said.
Lionel:Congratulations. Yes.
Linda:Thank you. But it's really interesting. It's a nice way to give some short education to everyone. We try to figure out some different topics that we think that people need to know more about. And a lot about how to keep the horses, what's important to prevent different diseases. We've also had some issues, something about lameness and different types of lameness. We have a really good physiotherapist. She's also written some of the posts. So just how to work your horse, things like that.
Lionel:So it's very broad.
Linda:It's very broad.
Lionel:Okay. And it's for all kinds of horses?
Linda:Yes.
Lionel:Yes.
Linda:I don't think I can do an only Icelandic.
Lionel:Really, you think?
Linda:Yeah. I can talk to my colleagues.
Lionel:All right. Just coming back to Icelandic horses. And is there specific issues, problems that you see in Icelandic, that you don't get to encounter in big horses?
Linda:Everyone knows we have some problems with the summer eczema.
Lionel:Yes.
Linda:We also have some more laminitis and EMS with Icelandic horses.
Lionel:And it's related to weight, right?
Linda:Yes.
Lionel:Can we talk about eczema? And so it's mostly Icelandic horses coming from Iceland into the continent. Where would that come from? Is it due to mosquitoes that we have here in the continent that they don't get?
Linda:Yes, exactly. So they haven't met them when they were young, so they haven't any tolerance for it, and then they turn allergic.
Lionel:Allergic to it. How does it look like to have an Icelandic horse with eczema?
Linda:Yes, when they have eczema, they will have some itch, especially in the mane and tail, because the specific insect that does it is mostly within the mane and tail and bite them. So that's why that's the... And also under the belly, they will have some. They will get very itchy, and if they're not protected and taken care of enough, they will have some wounds as well.
Lionel:Is there ways to prevent it?
Linda:Yes, you need to have a sweet, itch blanket on the horse.
Lionel:During the entire half a year?
Linda:Yes, and you need to put it on early in the season, like a week before the insects arrive.
Lionel:Is there a vaccine or things like this that exist to prevent even more?
Linda:They are doing some research on it, but I don't think... They haven't really cracked the code yet, but they are doing some research and they are getting somewhere at least.
Lionel:But not there yet? No. No. And is there things to soothe the horse when he has that?
Linda:Well, you need to have some soothing lotion on the horse and just... But if it's really, really itching, you need some cortisone, because you need to just stop the itch.
Lionel:When a horse has eczema one year, is it... he has eczema for his entire life?
Linda:No, some of them don't, but mostly if they have some proper eczema, they will have it for the life, depending on where in the country you live. My white horse, he has eczema, but he had quite... he didn't have so much eczema when we lived up in Umeå. And now here in Skåne, it's almost nothing, because we don't have so much insects.
Lionel:Oh, okay. You put a blanket every year?
Linda:I put only a half blanket on it, because only on his... over his mane. Yeah, and then it gets a full blanket if it's very much insects, because... but we almost have no insects right here where I live, because it's so windy.
Lionel:Yes.
Linda:So it's enough for him with only the mane, and most of the days, nothing.
Lionel:So we talked about eczema. You mentioned EMS, laminitis. Can you describe a bit what is EMS?
Linda:Yes, EMS is equine metabolic syndrome, and it's our fat ponies.
Lionel:That's really simpler that way.
Linda:Yeah. So it's shown in studies that it's in horses that are from islands and things like that, because they are Icelandic horses. They are born and raised on lava stone. That's what they should eat. And when they get out in a fresh grass pasture, it gets a little bit too much, and then they get fat. For horses living in Iceland, it's good for them to just stuff fat. Yes, because of the cold and the condition of the weather condition. And they will survive better during the winter.
Lionel:Yes.
Linda:But here we do give them food all year round, and they don't need to get that much fat. And they have seen that horses with EMS, they get a different response to sugar, so they get too much insulin in the blood. And they have shown in studies that hyperinsulinemia, that produces laminitis. So it's not if they have like 10 horses that are healthy, and they give them sugar, not all of them will have laminitis. But if they give them insulin, all of them will have laminitis.
Lionel:All right. Is it treatable or is it preventable? Let's start with prevention.
Linda:Yes. So prevention is diet.
Lionel:Diet it is.
Linda:Yes. And you need to know how much sugar there is in your food, in the hay, because many of the horses that get laminitis, especially during the winter, has too much sugar in the hay.
Lionel:In the hay. Okay.
Linda:So it's very important if you have a fat horse to see how much sugar is there in your hay.
Lionel:So you will recommend that they do an analysis of the hay, for instance?
Linda:Yes.
Lionel:Okay. Is there a value that you will look for?
Linda:Yes, it should be below 10%. But if you have a horse that is very sensitive, even 10% can be too high. But if you have a horse that you think might have EMS, it's quite easy to do a test to see if the horse is at risk for laminitis.
Lionel:A follow up question, I guess. When a horse is diagnosed with EMS, can it be cured?
Linda:Yes, it can be cured if you diet them good. So horses, they do get less hyperinsulinemic if you get them to lose fat. So a horse, they can get completely sound if you just get them to have a healthy weight. But some of the horses, if they have very high EMS, they will get laminitis no matter how low sugar you have in your hay. And then they have found actually a medicine that you can give them to help them lose weight and to prevent that high insulina.
Lionel:But it's something that you will have to keep giving all day, all night, all night, all day. Is it something that you need to give?
Linda:Give them all night.
Lionel:Especially between 2 a.m. and 5 a.m. Yes. Great. Thank you, veterinarian. Is it something that you will give forever? Or no, once it's treated, it's treated?
Linda:It's very new medicine. So they haven't really figured it out. I think some of the horses might have to have it for life. And some of the horses can probably quit when they have a good weight. But you see some amazing results with it. I have four or five patients who are standing on it right now. And the results are really good. But that's horses that weren't really responding to diet change.
Lionel:Oh, wow. OK. You mentioned laminitis. Can you describe what is laminitis?
Linda:It's inflammation in the lamella, in the hoofs, and it's extremely painful.
Lionel:How would you see if a horse will have laminitis?
Linda:When we were young, people were talking about the laminitic horse standing with the feet in front of them and not really moving. But actually, as a horse owner, we have developed from that. We are much better at spotting it. So now we are seeing many laminitic horses that come in, that are just a little bit sore.
Lionel:So we managed to catch that before it gets really worse.
Linda:And then the prognosis is much better.
Lionel:But laminitis means that you will get a lame horse, for instance?
Linda:Yes, often they are very sore. It's like because it's an inflammation. If you're thinking about your nail, it's an inflammation between the finger and the nail. And then you need to walk on that. Yes, that's how the horse looks.
Lionel:With 300 kilos on top of those.
Linda:Yes, so they are not so willing to move.
Lionel:And even that, you said, you mentioned, like Icelandic horses tend to be, tend to not tell you that they are in pain. Even with that, they will stand and say, yeah, it's okay.
Linda:Yeah, if they are laminitic enough, they will tell you.
Lionel:Good.
Linda:But in an early stage, they are not as prone to show it as the warm bloods are.
Lionel:Prevention is, I guess, weight. It's related to weight and the sugar and the feeding, I guess.
Linda:Yes.
Lionel:And you mentioned also this new treatment that you mentioned can help preventing it, but also removing or limiting laminitis.
Linda:Yes, because most of the horses that get this medication is horses that have had laminitis before.
Lionel:OK.
Linda:You can't really prevent it on these horses because with only diet, because they are just getting laminitis again.
Lionel:OK.
Linda:And then you have this medication that is just lowering the sugar in their blood.
Lionel:OK.
Linda:So then it's lowering their insulin, insulin level.
Lionel:Yeah.
Linda:And then they are not getting laminitis anymore.
Lionel:Is it when you get a new horse taking blood sample, for instance, will help you to to just find something like this?
Linda:If you're going to test for EMS, yes, then you need to get some specific blood tests.
Lionel:Ah, okay.
Linda:Yes, you need to have the horse first. It needs to be without food for 12 hours.
Lionel:Okay.
Linda:And then you give them some, a specific dose of some glycose syrup. Okay. Just so you need, because you need to know what amount of sugar the horse has got. And then you need to see their response to that.
Lionel:So it's a very specific test.
Linda:Yes. But it's a very good test because then it will show you if the horse has a normal response to the sugar.
Lionel:To the sugar. Because this is what you test actually, the response to the sugar level.
Linda:Exactly.
Lionel:Yes. Okay.
Linda:And you can also do the same, like the same test, but with their normal hay to see if the horse is, if you have a horse that gets a hay with like 10% sugar, and you want to see does the horse manage this. Then you first have the horse without food, and then you give it a dose of hay.
Lionel:Yes.
Linda:And it eats, and then you take the blood sample and see how does the horse insulin response to this hay. Does it? And that will tell you something about how high the risk of getting laminitis from that normal hay is.
Lionel:Okay. I guess so then that means it's also linked to the metabolism of the say horse, right? The specific horse.
Linda:Yes, exactly.
Lionel:It means that some horses can take on more sugar than other, I guess.
Linda:Yeah.
Lionel:Okay.
Linda:But it also tells you something about the risk of getting that horse, giving that horse laminitis from injection with cortisone, for example.
Lionel:All right. Okay. Because cortisone can provoke laminitis.
Linda:Yes. And that's also because when you have a horse, that's a little bit overweight.
Lionel:Yes.
Linda:And it's lame, and I want to treat it. Then there's always the worried look in my eyes that I will say, I can't treat this horse with cortisone because I'm afraid I will give it laminitis.
Lionel:Oh, okay.
Linda:And laminitis from a steroid injection is quite hard to manage.
Lionel:So someone coming with eczema with a somehow fatter horse. It's kind of a head scratch for you to fix it.
Linda:Yes. But it's even worse if it's lame in the leg, and I want to treat it with steroids in the leg, because giving it cortisone for eczema is quite... Then I can use some other steroids that are not as long active and not as aggressive. But the steroids that I will put in a joint, they are a little bit more long active. So then it will be difficult if that one gives the horse laminitis. I still have cortisone in the horse for a longer time.
Lionel:Oh, wow. Okay. Is hoofs in Icelandic horse have something special?
Linda:Yeah, it's interesting because we can do so much with the horse's balance, because I think it's very important with our horses, because we affect them so much with the gates, with what we do with the hoofs and the shoeing. So that's very interesting, but it's also that we should be aware of, that it's not good for the horses to have big, big hoofs and high weights on them all the time. We need to just give them some rest from it.
Lionel:For instance, in an Icelandic horse, you will recommend to have shorter hoofs. Is it what you will say?
Linda:That depends on, because we also need to have what's best for the horse's body. If short, small hoofs and light shoes means their horse is only walking in pace, then it's not good. So we need to just see the whole horse. But it's also good if you have like a competition horse that you have boots on, and you have some soles and everything during the competition season. It's very good to rest from that during the winter, so the hoofs get to just rest from the weight.
Lionel:Okay, would you remove the shoes or just lighter shoes?
Linda:Yes, just normal shoes.
Lionel:Normal shoes. Okay. Would you look also for the hoofs when you examine a horse?
Linda:Definitely, especially if it's a lameness exam, because different types of hoofs will give you different types of problems in the legs. But if you have like a low heel in the hoof and a long toe, that will give some extra tension on the hind end of the hoof, and the navicular bone and deep, digital flexor tendon.
Lionel:Okay.
Linda:Yeah, and then you will give some pressure on that. And warm bloods are very sensitive for that. Icelandic horses, not so much, but they are still horses. It will give some pressure on the wrong end. We are getting better with it, but earlier we had quite high heels on Icelandic horses and very high hoofs. And then you get some problems with the suspensory ligaments.
Lionel:Okay. So how do you work with the furrier, for instance? You will tend to say, okay, maybe the furrier of the clinic will come and correct, yes?
Linda:Exactly. If the horses are lame, then some of the times, if I see that the balance is off in the hoofs, I will send the horse to our furrier for one or two shoeings to do the corrective shoeing and then he will talk to their furrier.
Lionel:Do you foster discussion with other professionals? If I have a furrier, you see something in the hoof, do you call them, for instance?
Linda:Yes, sometimes I do. And just discuss what I think about it and how we can and why they do. I mean, most of the people who work with the horses, they do have a plan. And when I see the horses and I see their hoofs, it's just one look at them. I don't know what they looked before that shoeing, where they have come from. This could be really good from where they started off.
Lionel:Yes, this is true. Sometimes, you just see a snapshot of where it is.
Linda:Yes, exactly.
Lionel:One of the questions I wanted to ask is the importance of regular vet checks. Is there things that you will advise Icelandic horse owner to do or not do?
Linda:Absolutely. I really advise people to, everyone, to do regular vet checks just to see how your horse is.
Lionel:Yes.
Linda:And especially with Icelandic, since they are a little bit more tricky to get to know because everyone has the different coping method with dealing with the gates and the balance. So everyone looks a little bit different, and that's just their way.
Lionel:Yes.
Linda:And if I've never seen the horse before, you come in and say, I think it's lame. The question is, oh, is this horse normal balance, or is it a very weak lameness, or how is it? So if I get to see your horse when it's sound and working well, I get to see my opinion, and this is the normal image of this horse. I usually give some tips on how I would think about training the horse, and if there are some issues that I think are just, you need to check this one or this one or so. But I think it's extra important with Icelandic horses to let your vet see them when they are.
Lionel:When they are good.
Linda:Yes, when they are good.
Lionel:Okay, that way you have a baseline, I guess.
Linda:Exactly. And I also think that in the Icelandic community, we shouldn't be so afraid of horses that have been seen by the vet. Many times when you see, if you look at sales ad, you just want a horse that's never been seen by the vet. It should never have been lame. And in my eyes, it's often a horse that's just never been looked at. I check my, well, I can check my own horses, so I check them like three times a year, but just because I can do it myself.
Lionel:Yes.
Linda:And then I get to know, I know my horses and I see if there is something different.
Lionel:What kind of check, a regular check, you would do?
Linda:I would just see them on a straight line and on a lunge.
Lionel:Yes.
Linda:Yeah, if it's a four-gated, I will also see them on canter, on the lunge, but the five-gated, not so much. And then I will do some flexion tests and then I will just feel on the back and the movement in the back. And if there's anything sore, and just see how the muscles are, if they are even in, or if there are some crookedness in the horse. And yes, just do a regular check and see if there's anything that I think you should focus on.
Lionel:You mentioned the back. I don't think we should discuss about it. Is there something specific with the Icelandic horse back?
Linda:Yes, I usually think about the four-gated horses as they are often kind of weak in the core muscle ature. So just to be very like on-off, then I would say the four-gated you often need to work on the core because they are a little bit like hang belly.
Lionel:Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Linda:They tend to be-
Lionel:So you will tend to collect them, ask them to collect more?
Linda:Yes, or tend to just ask them to use the core muscle ature and get their back up.
Lionel:Okay, yes.
Linda:And the five-gated horses tend to be a little bit more stiff and get some pain in the hind part of the back and also get the SI joint pain, just because of the pace, the movement in the SI joint when they are paced. But it's also, if you have high-speed tölt, you also can get some SI joint problems.
Lionel:What would you recommend for a five-gator?
Linda:I'm very much for water training.
Lionel:Water training?
Linda:I train my horses in the sea.
Lionel:We're not that far away from the sea, all right?
Linda:No, we're very close to the sea. It's like five minutes with the car and trailer.
Lionel:Very shallow, almost to the knee. No, not to the knee, to the capal.
Linda:Yes, to the carps.
Lionel:Yes. So it's pretty cool. They force them to, I guess, step over, no?
Linda:Yes. So it's really luxury, because with the four gators, it usually gets them to engage their core musculature more with the water. And with the five gators, it gets them to be a little bit more clean in the beat, in the walk. It prevents the pace.
Lionel:Yes.
Linda:So that's, and it's also very good for the SI joints if they do it correctly in the water.
Lionel:Is in a water mill, something that is interesting to go and to train your horse with?
Linda:Yes. Many horses will improve a lot with water training.
Lionel:Would you do regularly, like once a month, or this kind of, or not even needed to be that frequent?
Linda:I think if you should do it, then you should do it more regularly, like maybe once a week for a period. And then stop? And then stop, because I think you need to have it more often in a period.
Lionel:Okay. So it's more intense for a short period of time, and then you let it go and then do it again.
Linda:With my horses, I mainly do it in the low season, because it's so much more nice to ride in the sea in December in Skåne. Who wants to do it in June? I'm out with my horses in December in the sea.
Lionel:You also get to do some presentation around horses. Lately, in September, you did that in... Is it in Flüingen?
Linda:Yes, it was Nordic Hoof Summit in Flüingen. Because I'm also in charge at Saxtop, we have an MRI, so a magnetic resonance imaging camera. So I'm in charge of that. So I presented a study with MRI for ferries and veterinarians in Flüingen.
Lionel:What did you talk about, basically?
Linda:Yes, I talked about the importance of having all the nails removed from the hoof when we get in the MRI. So with the horses, you have a low frequency MRI. It's not as high as with humans. So if they have a nail left, it's not that everything is flying out of the hoof. But the image will get very black. But it's also, we have standing MRI with the horses. So the horses are just standing in the room, lightly sedated. So that's the tricky parts. We've had our MRI for three years now. So I discussed what kind of diagnosis we get to see and how we treat them, mainly with the most parts of our exams are in the hoofs, because we are very much restricted in other ways of examining the hoofs, because we have the hoof capsules, so we can't really look inside. And especially with the warm bloods, it's an area with many lamenesses in the back part of the hoof. It's a tremendous help, because then we get to see all the tendons and ligaments that you can't really see otherwise. And it also shows some bone edema, like bone contusions, and also some fractures and fissures that you can't really see otherwise. So I presented in how we use it and what types of diagnosis we get. And also since it was for for ferriers, I also presented how we treat them and how we usually chew them afterwards. And everything like that.
Lionel:Are you using regularly?
Linda:Yes, I work once one day a week in our MRI. So then we have four or five horses in the MRI. We have referrals from different clinics because there's only five MRIs for horses in Sweden. So we have referrals from most part of Skåne. Really interesting. I've learned a lot and it's really, really helped me in my work. Yes. And I love having Icelandic horses in there because they are standing so calmly.
Lionel:Something you didn't say. You were saying that the Icelandic horses, they don't say much about their pain, but how is it to handle a horse like an Icelandic horse compared to a warm blood?
Linda:Oh, my colleagues, they always, when I have Icelandic horses in the clinic, and they hear them trot on the, they come there and they're like, oh, what gate was that? And I was like, oh, it was trot. It was very nice trot. And they're like, no. And I always say that, oh, it can be a bit more tricky to examine the horses and to get to know everything, but they usually won't kick me or try to kill me when I inject them somewhere.
Lionel:They are very calm in that sense. It's very sturdy, I guess.
Linda:And I really, really like that part of it.
Lionel:We will invite Ferrier, and I hope they will say exactly the same, that they prefer putting shoes on Icelandic horse than warm blood.
Linda:Yeah. My Ferrier, he didn't have that many Icelandic horses when I moved here.
Lionel:Okay.
Linda:Now he has a lot of Icelandic horses.
Lionel:Okay.
Linda:And he really likes it. He's like, they are so nice and so calm. I really like this part of the work.
Lionel:By the way, in proportion, is there more and more Icelandic horses?
Linda:In the clinic, much more Icelandic horses.
Lionel:Do you think it means that we have more Icelandic horses more and more around here?
Linda:Maybe, but I also think that most of those who have Icelandic horses wants to come to a veterinarian who knows something about the breed.
Lionel:True, true, which will be you.
Linda:Yes.
Lionel:Thank you, Linda, for coming to talk to us.
Linda:Thank you, it was really nice.
Lionel:We hope so. And thank you, everyone, for listening. We will come back next month with a new episode. In the meantime, do not hesitate to share this episode. Goodbye.
Linda:Goodbye.
Lionel:Thank you.
