The Tölt Tales

Episode 6 - Zola Runsten

• The Tölt Tales • Season 1 • Episode 6

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For this episode we invited Zola Runsten, a farrier, passionate about Icelandic horses. During this podcast you will hear her talking about her journey, her life as a farrier and all the specificity of the Icelandic horse when it comes down to shoeing.

No hoof, no horse we say, let here about her!!

We hope you will appreciate this episode, we travelled to cold Gothenburg to meet Zola.

You want to know more about our guest here some useful links,


Music by Cob.
Follow us on Instagram and TikTok, @the_toelt_tales.

Lionel:

Hello everybody and welcome to The Tölt Tales Podcast. Hello Zola, how are you?

Zola:

Hello, I'm great.

Lionel:

For the people who do not know you, what is Zola doing in her life?

Zola:

My name is Zola Runsten. I'm a farrier that works around northeast of Gothenburg.

Lionel:

You do, you are farrier since many years?

Zola:

I shot my first horse 2007, so that's 18 years ago. So time flies, it goes really fast. This is the best job I've ever had. If I have a bad day as a farrier, I usually compare it to when I was a postman, because a bad day as a farrier is still better than the best day as a postman.

Lionel:

Because you were a postman before?

Zola:

Yes, for a couple of years.

Lionel:

Okay, and what happened that you decided to change career like this?

Zola:

No, actually, I was supposed to become a marine biologist. So I went to university for six years. Yeah. And I missed horses too much. So I decided to quit that and move to Iceland.

Lionel:

All right.

Zola:

Yes, and then I decided that I wasn't good enough and not as good as some of the trainers are.

Lionel:

Okay.

Zola:

So I thought like being a farrier would be a better choice, because I wanted to work full time with horses.

Lionel:

As you described, you have an history with horses and Icelandic horses.

Zola:

Yes. So I've had horses my whole life, but it wasn't until I was eight years old, we got our first Icelandic horses. So that's 1990. Okay. So it's a long time. We got Twister, but that was my first horse. He was 124 centimeters high. Yeah. He only knew Piggy Pace and Cross Canter. And my family decided to start a small touring company. So I worked a lot with tour riding in my teenage years and up in my early 20s. And also I have been training and riding horses, younglings, and training horses for sale and stuff like that. I would say I'm a happy amateur. Yeah. Mid-level competitions.

Lionel:

You don't compete anymore?

Zola:

Oh, I don't have a competition horse at the moment.

Lionel:

Okay. So talking about your horses now.

Zola:

Yes.

Lionel:

Yes. How many horses do you have?

Zola:

I own a five-gated mare of the prince from Knutshyttan. Mare had a couple of accidents that made me decide to make her a breeding mare instead.

Lionel:

Okay.

Zola:

Because the injuries are not genetic. So I think she's a really good horse. So I wanted a foal after her. So she's currently pregnant with the reigning world championship in Tölt on loose reins with Gleotoppur. Wow. So I'm expecting foal in end of May.

Lionel:

Okay. It's going to come quite fast.

Zola:

Yes. So I'm really excited. So hopefully, that will be my competition horse.

Lionel:

Okay. So soon two horses.

Zola:

Soon two horses.

Lionel:

Did you have ever more than two horses?

Zola:

Not as my own, but my family had up to, I think we, as the most, we had 12 Icelandic horses. Right.

Lionel:

Okay.

Zola:

Yeah. So I'm brought up with having Icelandic horses outside my window. And that's basically been my passion my whole life, Icelandic horses. So.

Lionel:

And you said briefly that you went to Iceland?

Zola:

Yes. I worked there for nine months. First at the stable outside Salfossi, and then at a stable, not so far from Hola. And I worked with the younglings and also training sales horses.

Lionel:

But you were still not a farrier, right?

Zola:

No. No. I was 25 when I was on Iceland.

Lionel:

Okay.

Zola:

And then I moved home and decided I wanted to become a farrier. So I needed money to do the studies. So I worked as a postman for three years.

Lionel:

And then you became a farrier?

Zola:

Yes. I went to... First, I followed the round of a farrier here in Gothenburg. Yep. On and off on every weekend and every vacation I had. 2010, I started at Vungen, up in Jämtland.

Lionel:

Okay.

Zola:

Because they have Icelandic courses mostly, and also a big trotting community there at the school.

Lionel:

Maybe if you can describe a bit where we are today.

Zola:

So we are at Aaljurklinik, which is a horse hospital mainly, but it also has a small animal clinic, so they can take in dogs and cats and small animals. We are currently six farriers working at this hospital, because everyone works outside in the field as well. So we are always one farrier every day here, except on the weekends, to sort of cover all the clients that come in from all over the West Coast.

Lionel:

Right, and when you don't do that, then you go like a normal farrier?

Zola:

On Fridays.

Lionel:

On Fridays, yes.

Zola:

And on Mondays to Thursday, I drive around the northeast of Gothenburg to different stables, and shooing mainly Icelandic horses, because they are more fun and nice.

Lionel:

Can you maybe describe the difference between shooing an Icelandic horse and another breed?

Zola:

Shooing Icelandic horses is a bit of rocket science, because it can differ so much, because the Icelandic horses' gaits can differ from every individual, and also the different balance problems you can have in tolt or trot or even canter. Canter is a little bit more difficult to shoo, but for tolt, to help the horse tolt, the shooing can be the thing that makes...

Lionel:

Or break a good...

Zola:

Makes or break a good tolt horse.

Lionel:

Okay.

Zola:

And also for the flying pace, if you have shooing horses that are competition in flying pace, you have to know which balance they need to keep the hold... Hold the way in pace. So it differs from weight and which pads you use. And it's fun, because it's like you have to think a little bit, and you also have to read... When you read what the owners know, because it has a lot to do with, can the rider take the balance that I'm doing and maintain it during the shoeing cycle. So it's supposed to be a help, but it's not supposed to be the one help. Because the rider has to do most of the work. And if you only shoe a horse with two heavy shoes in front and the rider can't work with the horse from behind, you will lose the positive sides of shoeing it a bit heavier in front. Because then you will get the horse in your hands, in the reins, if you can't maintain balance and muscles for the horse to be able to lift the front legs with thicker and heavier shoes.

Lionel:

Right. I realize now, I didn't ask the question, do you ask for the client to ride the horse?

Zola:

Not always. If I have a horse, a client that competes a lot, I usually want to look at the competition so I can see. And if they go away to compete, I ask them, like, how did it go? How did it feel? Like, which kind of points do you get? And I mean, it's a dance between the rider and the horse.

Lionel:

Absolutely.

Zola:

And the farrier is only one small part of that. And we can make it easier.

Lionel:

Okay. Do you feel your experience as rider helps you being a better farrier?

Zola:

Absolutely. I can know the difference if I should, because I have an Icelandic horse and all the horses during my career as farrier has been my test subjects. I use a lot of different materials on my horse to see and feel, okay, this was better. This was like, okay, the horse went a little bit trotty in the tote. I need to do something else. I need to put some other pads or maybe lower the heels or get a couple of millimeters more tow. And it depends. Every time I come out to an Icelandic horse owner, I need to ask them, is this a four-gator or a five-gator? I also need to ask them, what kind of balance problems do you have in Tölt? Because then we can meet and discuss what you can help them for.

Lionel:

Right.

Zola:

Because there's a lot of different shoeing materials, but we're not allowed to put everything on. No. Because we have the regulations there for a reason. It's for the horse's health.

Lionel:

Obviously.

Zola:

So you have to work around that, and you also have to look at like, is this horse a young horse? Maybe not put 10-millimeter shoes on the hind legs, the first thing you do. And I can do that together with a trainer, because I know that they will maintain it.

Lionel:

Yes. Okay.

Zola:

But I rarely put 10-millimeter shoes on the hinds, on someone, on a young horse, if the person can't maintain it. Because then the horse will lower its back, and you will have two separate horses. And you have to realize what I do down there will affect your riding.

Lionel:

Your riding, yes.

Zola:

So what the horse can have muscles for. So if you put too heavy on the hinds, if they don't have a strong back, it will not be good in the long run. Because the main thing is that the rider wants an experience. And I need to help her have that experience. And if it's a competition, we need to sort of figure a way to get there.

Lionel:

To stay a bit on the Icelandic horses, would you say that Icelandic horses are easier to shoe than other breeds? Yes, good.

Zola:

I think in a main overview, I feel that a lot of the Icelandic horses that I shoe are more well behaved. They're more calmer. And the most important part is that they're more agile. I can stand much more comfortable shoeing an Icelandic horse than I can do it with a pony in the same size. So you can pull the leg, most Icelandic horses, not all of them. You can pull the front legs away from the body a lot more than you can do on a pony that are quite stiff in the front. But we have bred on a horse that have movements in the front, like a lot of movements. So they are easier to work with because of the agility of them, especially the hind legs, I think. Yes, you can lift some Icelandic horses, like they are very agile. But also it's my favorite horse. So I, but I, when I go into an Icelandic stable, I'm more confident how to move around Icelandic horses. Yes.

Lionel:

You mentioned that you shoe horses, Icelandic horses for competition. Is there anything special you need to think about? You mentioned balance, but is there something in terms of materials or type of shoe that you're using that you need to take care of?

Zola:

Yes. In my toolbox, I have a measuring device.

Lionel:

Yeah.

Zola:

So I need to be able to be sure that the competition horse is going into the track, that they have the right length on the hoof, so they're not too long.

Lionel:

Okay.

Zola:

And also all the shoes that I shoe, Icelandic horses, are competition ready. So basically, I have to know, sometimes when I shoe with the front shoes with side clips, and I use this rolling shoes, some of the shoes are not, they're not allowed, because they're too wide in the toe.

Lionel:

Ah, okay.

Zola:

So then I have to know, are you going out in the competition? Then I have to take, either I have to grind it down to an allowed length, widths, or I have to take another kind of shoe, because you are only allowed to have a certain width on the shoe, and I have to keep within that level.

Lionel:

Yes, okay.

Zola:

So that's also the same with when you shoe with an 8mm and a pad.

Lionel:

Yes.

Zola:

8mm plus a pad can't be more than 13mm thick. So the pad can maximum be 5mm. So if you're shoeing with a thicker pad, I need to make sure it's 5mm, so it's not over the top, because the worst thing for an Icelandic farrier is to have their clients being disqualified at the competition.

Lionel:

Yeah, for the shoe, for the wrong shoe. For the wrong shoe. Absolutely.

Zola:

That would give me bad reputation, that I don't know what I'm doing.

Lionel:

Yeah. Sometimes we just think, you just come, you put shoe in, that's pretty much it. But like you said, you need to think a bit in advance on, okay, that's the way I'm allowed. Are you going to ride competition? Yes. Okay, I need to be extra careful. Some people, I guess, they are just going in the woods, so it doesn't matter so much.

Zola:

And you also have to make sure like, so we have different toe length for different wither height on Icelandic horses. So you have these steps, 136, 146 and like up. So you have to keep that also in mind that the horse that is taller can have longer hooves.

Lionel:

You mentioned it a bit at the beginning of the recording, is how you help horses in a in tolt or in different gait. Can you explain a bit how you work and help a horse to get a better tolt maybe or cleaner gait?

Zola:

Yes, it depends on the conformation of the horse.

Lionel:

Okay.

Zola:

And so you can have a short and like uptight pastern, which is rather normal in Icelandic horses. But the bigger the horses have become during the years, I've seen that a lot of Icelandic horses, they get very long pasterns, which get a very flat angle on the whole toe axel versus paster.

Lionel:

Okay.

Zola:

That gives another movement than the horse with short upright hooves.

Lionel:

Okay.

Zola:

But we have to remember that the natural movement in the horses are not in the hoof, it's up here in the shoulders. Yes. So you can't change too much without ruining the horse.

Lionel:

All right.

Zola:

So we have to think, we have to breed on horses that are, that can move better with as little as balancing as possible.

Lionel:

Okay.

Zola:

And I think the breeding has become so good the last 15 years that we need less and less balancing to keep the horse in a natural gait.

Lionel:

Yes.

Zola:

Which is a really good standard.

Lionel:

You mentioned, you touched upon it, they're also getting bigger, like higher.

Zola:

Yes.

Lionel:

Does it affect then that it affect your work as well?

Zola:

Yes, of course. I feel like the Tölt has changed a lot during this last 15 years. It's a lot more backmovers rather than leg movers. Yes. And that's a good thing, because then they work with the whole body, and not only throwing their legs all over, because the horses that are leg movers, they get put off balance very fast if you do something different with the shoeing. That can ruin a horse.

Lionel:

Yes. Like with the current breeding and how it goes, they carry more themselves in a way. They are more balanced, they use the entire body. That helps.

Zola:

I think like the breeding assessment, especially when they put in that you need to show the horses on loose reins, that's on point because that means that the horse can carry itself with very minimum changes on the shoes because you're only allowed to shoe pretty natural.

Lionel:

Oh, right.

Zola:

On all fours. Competition shoeing, you can put more pads and more filling and stuff like that, and more heavy boots. We are getting to a point where the horses can carry themselves better. But it also demands more from the rider. These competition horses, most of them, you can't just go out and go tolting. You have to ride tolting.

Lionel:

Yeah, you need to yourself activate the horse by your riding, by your seat, your legs, the aids. It's a more complex machinery, I guess, now, because you have also maybe more to handle. Maybe before, you didn't have to care so much about the hind legs. Now, you need to like, you know that everything comes from the hind legs, etc.

Zola:

To balance Icelandic horse, you have to look at the conformation first hand. What is too long toe? What is too short toe? Because both too short and too long will make it hard for the rider. So some Icelandic horses, they will get very stiff if they get too short front hoofs, like too fast rolling. So a stiff horse is not a good horse. It will make the back hurt on the horse. So you need to find like a balance where the horse can move comfortably forward. And that differs from five gators and four gators.

Lionel:

Yes, I was about to ask, what is the difference between five and four?

Zola:

Like, there are many gray zones between four gators and five gators. So sometimes one rule doesn't apply to the other.

Lionel:

If you take the two extremes, I guess.

Zola:

Yes, if you take the two extremes, you would say that, like, the old school four gator and five gator was much easier to see the difference in the conformation.

Lionel:

Okay.

Zola:

Because the five gators were usually built downhill.

Lionel:

Right.

Zola:

With a very big motor in the behind.

Lionel:

Yes.

Zola:

And those are actually, like, that conformation is usually built for 250 meter pace.

Lionel:

Okay.

Zola:

Because you basically, you don't have so much front movements, and you go quite close to the surface.

Lionel:

Yes. It's quite flat.

Zola:

And you don't use so much energy as much as a horse that is built up upwards.

Lionel:

Yes.

Zola:

So you get very fast pace horses from those. So they have a bit different conformation. You can see some of the differences now, but it's not as same as it was 20 years ago. Because then you really could see the difference between a pace horse and...

Lionel:

Just by the look of it.

Zola:

Yeah. So the foregated horses were more uphill. So they were in front. And they had a hard time getting their hind legs with them.

Lionel:

And I guess now, yeah, it's more uniform, you would say?

Zola:

Yes. The conformation, like, through all of it is better.

Lionel:

I have two questions related again to Icelandic horses. First of all, barefoot.

Zola:

We are the one of the only breeds that assess the hoofs. This has made our hoofs, most of it, not all of them, really good. Like, we have the natural roundness, we have strong bars, we have good triangular frogs, and it also made the hoof a bit stronger because we want thick hoof walls and good angles on both the pastern and the hoof angle. It needs to be right. And the breeding assessment has been more precise about that. You can't have too high heels, and it needs to be a straight toe, pastern angle. And they are much better at like assess that today. When they, for example, 10 years ago. Okay. So basically we have in genetically a better hoof. Because the conformation gives the hoof a better start.

Lionel:

Yes, okay.

Zola:

So genetics, everything starts with genetics. And you can't go away with that. So if you have a good horse with good genetics, with both from mother and father, you will have better hoofs. Yes. Because of the conformation is better. So your life with the horse as barefoot or shod will be easier. I'm not saying that these will not be lame, but the problems will not be as big.

Lionel:

Yes.

Zola:

If you have a horse with bad hoofs, you probably can't have that horse barefoot, because it will always be sensitive to changes, sensitive to seasons, sensitive to different layers. Yes.

Lionel:

On the ground, you mean?

Zola:

Yes, on the ground. Yes, different ground. So what we have done with the genetics is that we have a much deeper hoof, which makes it easier for the Icelandic horse to be barefoot, because you have the concavity of the hoof. So it doesn't hurt itself as much when they're walking around on gravel and stuff like that, because it has a concavity. Yes. If you compare that to thorough bloods or Swedish warm blood, which are very flat hooves, it's much harder for them to go barefoot, because the genetics and the conformation makes the hoofs not as good.

Lionel:

But you don't have anything against barefoot? No, I don't. It's something that you will say, yeah, okay, you can go barefoot.

Zola:

Yes, but I've also seen hooves that from an Instagram point of view, it's the perfect barefoot hoof. But the horse does not want to move forward.

Lionel:

Yes, okay.

Zola:

Because they have to feel around so much, they get stiff in their body.

Lionel:

Okay.

Zola:

Yeah, so you get problems, like it culminates from that they are a bit sensitive in the soles.

Lionel:

Yes.

Zola:

And then it goes upward, up to the back, up to the shoulders, up to the... And they get stiff, and you always have that to work with all the time, all the time. You go in circles.

Lionel:

Okay. Even though you feel that at the beginning, it looks good. Yeah, right.

Zola:

It doesn't mean that looks... Looks are deceiving.

Lionel:

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. We contacted you through Instagram. Yeah. You post a lot of pictures about a lot of different shoe material, a lot of different techniques. Is there a new coming trend? Is there a new type of shoe that are coming up that you feel like, oh, it's going to be the next big thing? Is there things that you like to work with more, for instance?

Zola:

Absolutely, if the customer can afford it.

Lionel:

Okay, that's a cost question. That's a good point.

Zola:

It's a cost question.

Lionel:

Yes.

Zola:

So you have to think that there's a reason why been using iron so long and why it's always goes back to iron is because it's cost efficient. Right. It's a cost efficient way to protect hooves from wear and tear from what the rider are doing. It's a good starting point to use it. And I think that if you're good farrier and you're an owner that maintain your horse, iron shoes are not super bad. It's just about genetics and maintenance, environment and food.

Lionel:

Food has an impact on the hoof.

Zola:

Yes, because it goes from the stomach and out to the hoofs. It's hard to pinpoint exactly. Like, I want to use this material. Yes, but does my customer's wallet allow it?

Lionel:

Yes. Okay.

Zola:

I have to always like ask that question, because there's there the last couple of years, the technology has gone so much forward with 3D printing and different gluing methods. And you can glue shoes on now. But the glues, the glue chemicals are really bad for us to inhale. So working with that every day demands me to wear a gas mask and nitrile gloves. So it's also like I don't need to use gas mask when I'm working with iron.

Lionel:

No.

Zola:

And also there's an environmental question. If we put all plastic on our horses, we have 370,000 horses in Sweden. If everyone would have plastic, there would be a lot of microplastic in the environment after a while.

Lionel:

True.

Zola:

So like I don't think that a smaller amount of horses on plastic shoes and barefoot shoes are a bad thing.

Lionel:

No.

Zola:

Because we still have cars that goes with tires. You know, as a material, iron is really nice for me to work. You can heat it up and change it and perfectly individually fit it to a horse.

Lionel:

Right.

Zola:

When you buy these plastic shoes, not every horse looks like that. So you have a certain kind of form on hoofs, and you can't produce so many different forms on glue shoes or boots. You have a pretty like standard.

Lionel:

Yes. I asked you about barefoot, but I didn't even ask you about boots. What is, how do you feel about boots?

Zola:

I think there are not enough research being done how it affects the movement on the hoof.

Lionel:

Okay.

Zola:

Because how you fasten it. Yes. There are so many different boots. Here's the thing where I feel like me coming from the balancing shoeing side of Icelandic horses, I know how different boots affect the gates. So if you have a top right boot or gear boot, or you have like this... Yes. So every boot have different weights on different sides. You want the weight behind the hoof, or on the side of the hoofs, or do you want it even around? It gives different kinds of steps. So there are different barefoot shoes. Yes. The barefoot boots. And they are... They come in so many... The market has exploded. And some are fastened over the hoof caps.

Lionel:

Yes.

Zola:

And I think that probably I have not done the research, but that's around where the Fetlock is. So I'm really... It would be cool to see how it effects that it's fastened around the Fetlock, and how the weight is effecting the movement. Because horses are very complex movers. So how does it effect when you put something around the Fetlock? Because we know as Icelandic horses, it's different if you put the boots, the round boots, up on top. The horses get a little bit floppy, like the hoofs are flopping around. So if you don't have a fitted boot that is fitted on top of the Fetlock, how does it effect the horse, I guess, and his movement?

Lionel:

Yes.

Zola:

And also the barefoot boots that are fastened around the hoofs capsule.

Lionel:

Yes.

Zola:

So for them to sit still, you have to fasten them quite hard. That will also effect the step on the horse. So I think the research around that is not enough. Right. How does it effect in the long run? We all know how shoes effect, because if you ride with too long toes for a long while, you will get joint inflammations.

Lionel:

Yes.

Zola:

Or if you have too heavy shoes in front and the horse doesn't have the stamina to keep it up, he will get inflammations and stiffness. How does it effect? Because some of the boots are super heavy.

Lionel:

Yes.

Zola:

And some are super light.

Lionel:

Yes.

Zola:

And when we are riding in Icelandic courses, the difference between putting 170 gram boots compared to 250 gram boots is huge. Right. Like we who compete a lot know the difference. Like it's a lot.

Lionel:

Yes.

Zola:

And the barefoot boots, they do weigh a lot, some of them. So I think there are coming new rules, I think, these days, about barefoot boots. So I'm hoping there gets a little bit more clarity.

Lionel:

Yes. Okay.

Zola:

But I'm not against that we do with boots, because I think it's interesting, and I think the people that have their horses barefoot should be able to compete like the rest of us. But it has to be even rules. We need to measure how heavy the boots are, for example, and also check the health around the skin area and stuff like that, because we can't allow horses to get injured by their equipment.

Lionel:

No, no, no.

Zola:

And it's the same with shoes, like everything we put on the horses.

Lionel:

I mean, what is true for the beets, the bridle, the saddle is also true for what we put on their hooves, right?

Zola:

Yes. It's a beautiful thing, the horse's hoof. It's amazing what we ride and do with the horses demands us to protect that area.

Lionel:

Yes.

Zola:

So the horses are not in pain.

Lionel:

Yes.

Zola:

And that's my job. So basically I cannot, by my heart, force a horse to be barefoot. That is going to be lame for a couple of months, but just because we put it barefoot. So usually what I do is I check, of course, the quality of the hoof, but you also have to check the environment with the horses standing in. Does it have the time where it gets a dry area?

Lionel:

Yes.

Zola:

Or is it in wet area all the time? Because we live on the West Coast, it rains.

Lionel:

It rains, yes.

Zola:

So you have to have a field, part of the field, because a lot of Icelandic horses are out 24-7, which is really good for the health. Yes. A lot less lameness and stuff like that.

Lionel:

Okay.

Zola:

But we do have a huge problem here on the West Coast with abscesses. Because of the mud, the hoofs get very soft.

Lionel:

Soft, yes. And then bacteria comes in.

Zola:

And bacteria comes in. And when the changing weather.

Lionel:

Yes.

Zola:

Because it can go from dry to wet, wet to frozen.

Lionel:

Yes.

Zola:

And that can be like in the autumn, when it goes from wet directly into frozen, we have a lot of abscesses coming in here to the hospital, both barefoot and short. And when they're barefoot and the hoofs get soft, because the hoof is a sponge, the surrounding affects it. So if it's dry out, the hoof will get drier. If it's wet out, the hoof will get wet. And if you step on the gravel, it's much easier for the gravel to push in. So we have a lot of white line disease problems here. White line disease starts usually from a crack in. It can come in through the nail holes, but anywhere where it's a crack in the surface that meets the mud and dirt. And it's a combination of bacteria and fungus. So it's sort of... It's like a symbiote. The fungus likes it when it's wet and warm. And it's warm inside the hoof, because we have a lot of blood supply in the hoof. So the hoofs are very warm. And the bacteria thrives where it's anaerobic, like without oxygen. So when it gets in, the bacteria is on the outside, and the fungus is in the inside. It's very important to have a failure that can understand and see it. The fungus goes further in, and it sort of opens up an area for the bacteria to grow. And it can grow and grow under the capsule, so you don't see it, because it's inside the hoof. And usually, when it just starts through a crack, the horse is not lame. It can also come from an abscess, where the abscess makes a hole, and then the bacteria and fungus gets in the way. Then it's easier to find it if it's lame. But white line disease can be like a silent killer. Yes.

Lionel:

Okay, okay. How do you treat a horse like this?

Zola:

Good lighting in the stable makes it much easier.

Lionel:

Yes.

Zola:

And I think that in the recent years, a lot of stables have become much better in lighting, because they're listening to their failures and put up lights.

Lionel:

Why good lighting will help?

Zola:

Because then I can see.

Lionel:

Right. Okay. It's really as simple as that. It's just because you will see this black fungi or a crack.

Zola:

So if you pull off the shoe and you make a new trim it, then you will see it, because it's like black spots in the white line.

Lionel:

Okay.

Zola:

And you start with your knife to sort of carve a bit away.

Lionel:

Yes, obviously.

Zola:

And I have a very small knife, so I try to carve as little of the healthy hoof capsule as possible. And in this time of year, most shod horses have a small area in the heels and on the sides, where it's like, because we are putting nails in, it comes in. Because you basically put a hole into the hoof. So it's like an entrance.

Lionel:

You create yourself the entrance.

Zola:

And that's why it's so important to keep horses that they, a couple of hours per day, at least stand in dry area. Because then it's harder for the bacterium fungus to take hold.

Lionel:

Is there like copper sulfate in here?

Zola:

Oh, I love copper sulfate.

Lionel:

Yeah, I know. Ferrier loves copper sulfate.

Zola:

Because copper sulfate is the best killer of fungus.

Lionel:

Right.

Zola:

That's the ultimate. Copper sulfate moves into the capsule much further in. When you treat a hoof with copper sulfate, you usually see that it goes into the healthy tissue a couple of millimetres more in.

Lionel:

Okay.

Zola:

And that makes the area not comfortable for the fungus. Right. But it's very important to use gloves when you work with it. Preferably eye protection.

Lionel:

Okay.

Zola:

Because I one time got a copper sulfate crystal in my eye.

Lionel:

Yes.

Zola:

And that was the worst pain I've ever felt.

Lionel:

I bet. All right.

Zola:

So it's in Sweden called Pestelkollera. So basically you have to choose between two evils. Yes. To make it easier to handle, you can mix it into Artimud.

Lionel:

Okay.

Zola:

Artimud is a product I use. I'm not product placing here, but it's amazing. So it's antibacterial and antifungal functions.

Lionel:

Okay.

Zola:

But you can smear it over it. It's easy for clients to work with and it's non-toxic.

Lionel:

Right.

Zola:

And it smells good. And to say this, there are several different brands. So, yeah. If you have a horse that has a mineral deficiency, for example, Icelandic horses, when I see problems, quality problems in the hoof with ongoing white line disease problems.

Lionel:

Yes.

Zola:

If I can't fix it with balancing in the hoof and balancing, like I come there very often, I clean it out completely, I treat it with the different chemicals I use, and it continuously gets back the white line disease. I will ask my clients to do a checkup, blood work, for mineral deficiency. And the most usual one is selenium, because the ground doesn't have it.

Lionel:

It doesn't have that, yes.

Zola:

We are deficient in this. Yes, in selenium.

Lionel:

Yes, yeah.

Zola:

But because, like, zinc and magnesium is also a thing that can be deficiency also. So I usually look, I want the customer to look that up as well.

Lionel:

So it's more if there was keep on coming back.

Zola:

Yes.

Lionel:

Selenium, magnesium, zinc, deficiency.

Zola:

Yeah, because it has to do with growing of the hoof. Yes. And the glue that sticks the lemini together. So food is very important for hoof health. And if you are mineral deficient, the hoof can't hold back against the bacteria and fungus in the ground. So you can have a horse with a good health in one stable, and then a horse that is very bad health in the stomach. He will probably have worse hoofs and white line problems and white line disease problems and stuff like that. There's always a small amount of bacteria and fungus in the nail hole. You will see it as like, you can see it very clearly on white hoofs. You get the black lines after the nail holes. But they contain in that area. They don't go out.

Lionel:

Ah, right.

Zola:

That is when the hoof health is good, the environment is stable, and the shoeing balance is on top. So like six, seven weeks and not longer. Because then the nail stays put in the same place. So it won't let in more.

Lionel:

Got you. Yes, I see what you mean.

Zola:

But if the shoeing is, you wait too long, the nails will start to move because the hoof is growing, but the nails are in the same place as you put them, but the hoof is expanding. So that will move the nails and make bigger holes for bacteria and fungus to get in. And also the difference is, if you go from dry to wet, you will see that the hoof will expand. And then the shoe and the nails doesn't fit the hoof anymore. And if it goes from wet to dry, you will also see that. You can see that the nails raise up from the hoof capsule.

Lionel:

Actually, that's true. Like the shoe will not move. It's iron. The nails will not move.

Zola:

Yeah.

Lionel:

And obviously, like when you have, like you described, if you go from dry to wet, the hoof that is alive expand and the rest doesn't move. Then it creates problem, I guess.

Zola:

Yes.

Lionel:

And actually, it's one of the question I have is the difference between summer hooves and winter hooves, if that's something we can use.

Zola:

Yes. So the difference is how warm the weather is. This is something I learned just a couple of years ago, because I thought it was about the light, the different light, but it's about the warmth outside.

Lionel:

Okay.

Zola:

So horses are extremely good at keeping heat in their body, especially Icelandic horses, because they're from higher latitudes.

Lionel:

Yes.

Zola:

And to keep heat in the body, the blood pushes through the legs down to the hooves, and it's a good amount of blood coming through the hooves. It's a very complex blood system down there.

Lionel:

Okay.

Zola:

And it's a skeleton filled with blood. Okay. So you have all the veins and stuff through the pedal bone.

Lionel:

Okay.

Zola:

So it's a very active area. Yes. So to keep the heat in the body, when they're standing on cold brown or snow or so, the blood will come in cold.

Lionel:

To the horse.

Zola:

To the horse. So to keep that down, they switch between the switch hooves. So in the wintertime, you can feel that one hoof is warmer than the other three.

Lionel:

Yes.

Zola:

Yeah. So they regulate their heat by switching different amounts of blood through the hoof. So when the blood supplies go down to the hoof, they will not grow as much.

Lionel:

And that's the explanation. Okay. This is super interesting.

Zola:

Yeah. I was told by this by a fairy. There are many things, of course.

Lionel:

It's way more complex than that, obviously.

Zola:

Green grass and hay and stuff like that. It depends on what you eat as well. And, of course, like winter and summer first. But that's one of the best explanations I had. So I think when I explain this to people that live in warmer climates, they don't have the difference between the same as we do.

Lionel:

All right. And now everything makes sense.

Zola:

Yes. So, I had, now it's been quite warm up until now. So it's been a little bit hard to push the horses too long.

Lionel:

Too long, yes.

Zola:

So they still grow a lot. But it's going to be minus now for two months.

Lionel:

Yeah, it starts snowing.

Zola:

Yeah, it started snowing today. Today.

Lionel:

When we drove here, god damn it. Just a small question before we leave you. What is the best thing to do for your failure when it comes to your stable?

Zola:

Oh, for me?

Lionel:

Yes.

Zola:

Oh, it's coffee and cookies.

Lionel:

All right.

Zola:

You get a long way with coffee and cookies. I have my car broke down and I've been sick, so I've been a little bit left behind in the schedule. So a colleague followed me out, and she says I have the best clients because they all serve me coffee and cookies.

Lionel:

All right.

Zola:

And so it goes a long way for my mood when there's coffee and cookies. But a flat surface to stand on.

Lionel:

Yes.

Zola:

Not too much movement around the horse.

Lionel:

Light, you said?

Zola:

Light. Not light straight from upwards, because then your shadow will shadow the hoof.

Lionel:

Yes.

Zola:

So lights from the sides. And it's also important to know your mood of the horse. Does it need to have a friend with them inside? Is it in the morning with all the her friends have gone out, haven't gotten breakfast or lunch, or like are all the horses being taken in past the place where I stand and shoe? So it's mostly to give a space where we can have peace and quiet, so we can concentrate on doing as good job as possible.

Lionel:

Do you want them to be attached?

Zola:

Well, it depends on the horse, because some horses get panics for being on the horse. So I show a couple of horses that are not tied, that you're just standing still, because they get a little bit panic from trauma in their life. So you have to sort of... Every horse is an individual. I have to treat them individually, and I have to approach them individually. I have one horse that usually bites me in my butt, so he has to have a...

Lionel:

No, a protection?

Zola:

Yes. Like a...

Lionel:

Oh, he's a biter. He's really a biter.

Zola:

Yeah.

Lionel:

Yes, okay.

Zola:

He's super nice. He stands still for me. I mean, he stands still when I shoe him, so it's perfectly fine, but he always bites me in the ass. So he's not allowed to do that anymore. No?

Lionel:

Are you using copper nails?

Zola:

No.

Lionel:

Okay. Okay. Can I ask you why, though?

Zola:

They're expensive.

Lionel:

That's okay. All right, okay. That's a very good discussion that you had about the economy of... Maybe iron is not the best thing, but is the cost-effective way of shoeing horses since millennium now?

Zola:

And I think the cost of the copper nails doesn't show enough good stuff happening in the hoof for me to put on top on the shoeing. I would have wanted more results.

Lionel:

Yes.

Zola:

It does. There are research that has been done on the copper nails. And yes, for sure, there are lesser bacteria and fungus in the nail hole than a more normal nail.

Lionel:

Yes.

Zola:

But I can do that with copper sulfate. Right. Because copper sulfate goes out directly into the hoof.

Lionel:

Okay.

Zola:

But the copper in a nail needs to release.

Lionel:

Yeah, yeah.

Zola:

And also, I think copper nails on white hoofs, they miscolor the hoof.

Lionel:

Oh, wow. Okay.

Zola:

So I once put copper nails on a competition horse that is a white, gray horse, with white hoofs. And she, like, you're not allowed to put those more.

Lionel:

No, no. All right.

Zola:

No, no, no.

Lionel:

Thank you, Zola, for welcoming us here in Gothenburg. And thank you, everyone, for listening. We will come back to you in three weeks with a new episode. In the meantime, do not hesitate to share this episode. Before leaving you, we would like to mention that you can follow us on Instagram, and you can follow Zola on Instagram. The Tölt Tales podcast for us. And what is your Instagram account?

Zola:

Zola Runsten.

Lionel:

Here you go. For more news and stories, you post a lot. And they are very fun to watch, like different types of shooing, different horses also.

Zola:

Yeah, I like spreading knowledge. Fun.

Lionel:

We can only recommend that you follow Zola on Instagram. Thank you Zola again.

Zola:

Thank you.

Lionel:

And goodbye.

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