Episode 11 - Åsa William

In the first episode of our 2nd season, we had the chance to catch up with Åsa William. A passionate and successful rider and small scale breeder, Åsa is also known for being a trainer and international FEIF sport judge.

Here, we talked with her about her horse Prins, online trainings and webinars and what you learn observing others.

Music by Cob.
Follow us on Instagram and Facebook, @the_toelt_tales.

Transcript

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Lionel: 0:00

Hello everybody, and welcome to The Tölt Tales Podcast.

Åsa: 0:14

Hi.

Lionel: 0:15

How are you?

Åsa: 0:16

I'm good. I'm really good.

Lionel: 0:18

Yes, it's sunny out there.

Åsa: 0:20

Yes.

Lionel: 0:20

In the south of Sweden.

Åsa: 0:22

It's a beautiful day.

Lionel: 0:24

It's nice. Every time when we start the podcast, we ask the guests to present themselves. So, Åsa, can you present a bit yourself?

Åsa: 0:33

Absolutely. My name, of course, also William, you know that. I am a rider of Icelandic horses, do some competitions. I think most people know me as a judge on an international level, but also as a riding instructor for people on all levels.

Lionel: 0:53

Right. What is a day or a week of Åsa William looks like?

Åsa: 0:59

Oh, my weekday starts quite early. I'm an early bird. I love to go out in the morning. So my day starts by taking care of the horses, feeding the horses, taking the horse out in their pastures. And then I have a normal job. So I go there. I work as a store manager of a Grandgården store. We sell everything for horses, people's pets, gardening stuff. So that is my day until four o'clock approximately. Then I spend some time with my son. Every day, that's very important for me. And in the evening, I become the horse person again. So then it is both riding, training my own horses, taking care of them, but also having either riding lessons or some online seminars.

Lionel: 1:58

Oh, right. Is it at home?

Åsa: 2:00

Yes, we live at a small farm with nine horses. So it's not that many, but still, it takes some time. And we have just our own small riding arena and lots of lots of good riding roads out in the forest.

Lionel: 2:18

Yes. You mentioned nine horses.

Åsa: 2:20

Yes.

Lionel: 2:21

Is it like all Icelandics?

Åsa: 2:23

Yes, all of them are Icelandics, and they are between, or maybe it's nine and a half. One is not born yet. Okay. And otherwise, they are between five and 23 years old. So I have the full range. No, I lied. The youngest one is three.

Lionel: 2:43

Okay. Good.

Åsa: 2:44

I forgot one. He's not at home.

Lionel: 2:47

He doesn't listen to us, so it's okay. Okay. And you ride them all? No, you don't ride them all during the week.

Åsa: 2:56

No, no, I don't ride them all. I have four that I ride at the moment, and some of them more and some of them less. The youngest one I ride, he's turning four years old this year, so he is not more than like three, maximum four times a week. And the older guys are trained a little bit more, both riding and from the ground, of course.

Lionel: 3:20

Are they all coming from your small breeding?

Åsa: 3:25

No, they don't. It is three from my own breeding, and the rest is from other people's breeding.

Lionel: 3:36

And do you keep nine horses for competition or you sell them as well?

Åsa: 3:42

Well, you know, as a horse person, it's very easy to buy horses and to make more, sell them. Well, I always have the hope that the next one from my breeding will be the new star. So I have a tendency to keep them for as long as possible. But since my breeding is so small, it's not a big problem. But I do sell some.

Lionel: 4:11

Yeah? It happens. So you had more than nine for a while.

Åsa: 4:15

Yes. My husband is very happy that the number is going slowly down.

Lionel: 4:23

Yes, I bet. You said you do webinars as well? Is it you train people online?

Åsa: 4:30

Yes, I both train people online, like ordinary writing lessons online. But my main thing is I do webinars on competition, judging, judge's trainings, and just teaching people a little bit more about the sport that we are doing. That is my passion of a bit. There are so many in the sport that really loves the horses, they love competing, but they don't know so much about it. No, indeed. And I know quite a lot about it. So I'd love to just share my knowledge with other people.

Lionel: 5:07

How did it start?

Åsa: 5:09

It started during the COVID years.

Lionel: 5:14

Okay, yeah, obviously, yeah, yeah.

Åsa: 5:16

And me and my friends, we started doing some online tournaments.

Lionel: 5:20

Yes.

Åsa: 5:20

So that was like the starting point of it. And when COVID luckily left us or weren't as bad anymore and people started competing again, I was thinking about it was a quite easy way of doing it, being at home, don't having to go away like every weekend or every night. So I started to think about what else I could do from home to be able to still work with my passion, but also spend more time with my family.

Lionel: 5:54

Okay.

Åsa: 5:55

So that's more or less how it started.

Lionel: 5:57

You do it often?

Åsa: 5:58

Yes, I do it quite often, at least sometimes a month, these webinars on competition or judging or the Icelandic Horse Gates. And the lessons are more or less every week now.

Lionel: 6:14

Is it for people who just start riding or people who do not know Icelandic horses?

Åsa: 6:18

It is for anyone who wants to learn more about Icelandics. I usually advertise them online. Facebook and Instagram is a good thing for that. So, it can be like last week we had a webinar both on the news with the rules from my...

Lionel: 6:39

I have a question for you.

Åsa: 6:40

Yeah, okay. But I also this winter had a very popular seminar that was four times, once every week for a month, when we were talking about and looking at the gates of the Icelandic horse, discussing them, how to look at them, how you could improve them, and that was for like anyone. I had both really experienced people, but also some that were completely new to Icelandics.

Lionel: 7:11

Wow, I can relate to that. I think it's just better to get more point of view, more things, know more about our horses. I think it's super interesting that you do that. You mentioned also you travel to teach as well.

Åsa: 7:26

Yes, absolutely. I do quite a lot of travel days every year, both for judging, of course, but also like competition, training, and just regular riding courses. So, and that is for people on all levels. I've had both complete beginners and people that are going to the World Championship. So it's really fun. I'm so happy I can see everyone.

Lionel: 7:55

Yes. Do you take lessons yourself?

Åsa: 7:57

Of course. You are never too good. And I would say my theoretical knowledge is much better than my practical. Yes. So, absolutely.

Lionel: 8:14

Any trainer in particular that you love to train with?

Åsa: 8:18

Yes. I loved to train with Vignier. He was a good friend of mine and also helped me a lot with the training. And after he sadly passed last year, I haven't found my new person yet. I have my good friend Jenny Göransson. She helps me a lot. But otherwise, I'm still looking.

Lionel: 8:41

Yes. Okay. Okay. We have names. Can you just explain a bit the reason why you train? Because you're competing today. You won. You're going to compete in, I guess, the Swedish championship. By any data point, we can say you are an accomplished rider. But at your level, what does it bring you?

Åsa: 9:01

I would just love to be the best person or the best rider for my horse. I think we owe that to them.

Lionel: 9:09

Yes.

Åsa: 9:10

Because the horses, they don't choose to be riding horses. Yes. They know nothing about riders, and everything they are taught, we teach them. So for me, I just want to be better for them. And I think riding is so fantastic, because you can do it all your life and always become better. In a lot of other sports, you are completely gone by the time you are 30. But here you can just develop and learn new stuff all the time. And the things you knew yesterday are not right anymore tomorrow. The sport is so in such a huge development curve. So it's just, I just think it's so fun. And yeah, to be the best for my horse, that is my main drive to train.

Lionel: 10:14

It's interesting that you say that you're doing that for your horse as well. I know that at my level, at the level that is way lower than yours, when we talk to people about take lessons with someone, the first answer that we got is, I'm not gonna compete. And I don't know what you think about it, but I always say that it's not about competing. It's about having your horse in a better, like sustainable horse in a sense.

Åsa: 10:42

I absolutely agree. And I think sometimes we are a little bit lost in the discussion about the, that is very popular now with horse welfare. And we talk about it a lot when it comes to competition horses. But I think it is as important, or even more important when we ride at home, because everyone do that like 99% of the time. So it doesn't matter where you ride, or for what reason, the horse always deserves to get the best you, and have a version of you that makes it feel relaxed, and calm, and confident. Because that is something, especially with our breed, that is so amazing, and I think that is what lots of us fall in love with, that the horses, they have so much integrity and spirit, and we want to keep that.

Lionel: 11:42

I didn't ask you, like, you always ride Icelandic horses? No.

Åsa: 11:49

I started with riding ponies at a riding school.

Lionel: 11:54

At a riding school, okay.

Åsa: 11:55

Yes, outside of Stockholm, and then big horses. And I loved to ride dressage. My riding school was a little bit focused on that. On dressage, yes. And then I had a period when I didn't ride at all. There were other things in my life, you know, when you're a teenager, like boys and party and stuff. And then my mom started to ride again. She had a long, long break, and she started with Icelandics. Oh, wow.

Lionel: 12:23

Okay. And is she the one responsible for why you are here today?

Åsa: 12:27

Yes, she is, because she started riding and helping out with like riding tours.

Lionel: 12:34

Okay.

Åsa: 12:34

And one day, her tour guide partner was ill, so I had to come help her. Yes. And then I was just lost.

Lionel: 12:44

Ah, yes.

Åsa: 12:44

Yeah, I love them from day one.

Lionel: 12:47

The transition between big horses, three gators, to a new gate, maybe a tult or a weird trot, how was it?

Åsa: 12:57

It was confusing.

Lionel: 13:00

This is what I heard.

Åsa: 13:02

Lots of things are the same. A horse is always a horse, and it needs to be taught the same things. But the difficulties are in different places. On an Icelandic horse, it can be difficult to just ride a clear gate. On a big horse or a three gated horse, you have other difficulties. So it was a challenge, and I was not particularly good at it, I can tell you that.

Lionel: 13:30

Well, that changed.

Åsa: 13:32

Well, at least I'm better.

Lionel: 13:35

We talked about the competition. You compete today. Can you tell us a bit how you prepare for competition?

Åsa: 13:45

The preparation is most of the time. Now my competition horse, he's quite old. Okay. He is...

Lionel: 13:53

Prince.

Åsa: 13:54

He is prince, yeah. He is 17, maybe 18, this is bad. I think he's 17. So he's an old guy, he knows stuff.

Lionel: 14:04

You know the drill.

Åsa: 14:04

Yes, absolutely. So my main goal is to keep him happy. Yeah. And in a good mood. He can get a little bit worried when we go away from home. So I try to just keep him happy and calm. And the preparation is just do things as normal. We ride a lot outside. We both love that. So just to keep his spirits up and practice. This will sound really boring, but it's very, very basic exercises that have to work to keep the competition horses going.

Lionel: 14:45

What is your favorite exercise that you maybe found boring?

Åsa: 14:50

No, I don't find it really boring. I love riding outside, but I just think to get to any level, it's just to check the basic aids are working, just the driving forward, the stopping the horse, the moving the horse to the sides, keeping it supple and relaxed with you, and also be able to put energy in it.

Lionel: 15:14

Right.

Åsa: 15:15

And you have to practice that at home before you go to a competition. You need to be able to ride more or less the same way, so the competition isn't such a big difference for the horse.

Lionel: 15:29

Just more horses around, and that's pretty much it.

Åsa: 15:31

Exactly.

Lionel: 15:33

And how do you calm Prins? Is he, even after being experienced, is still a bit worked up or worried when he sees a competition or the horses?

Åsa: 15:44

Yes. Yes, he is. So he can be stressed, but we found a way to, or I found a way to calm him down. So I try to be at the competition place at least the day before. Before it starts, so I can ride him the day before. And then we don't do anything serious. We just ride around as it would be like any day. We don't do any difficult exercises, just stop, turn, move his hind and front legs, and just try to be as normal as possible. And then it always feels like shit, that first ride. But now I don't take any notice of it, because I know he's just stressed, and I know that then the next day, he will be there again for me.

Lionel: 16:42

Is it not cool to start to build a system, a communication with a horse, no?

Åsa: 16:48

It is, and I really love this horse. He would do anything for me. He's a really wonderful individual.

Lionel: 16:58

Willing and just forward.

Åsa: 17:01

Yeah, he is, yes, he's just, he is really willing, but he can also be, if I tell him to be calm, he is. So we just have a good communication.

Lionel: 17:14

Since when do you have him?

Åsa: 17:16

I've had him since 19. Okay. It's a friend of mine who bred him, and she had him in training with another rider, and when their contract ended, she took him home and used him a little bit for breeding, and didn't really know what to do with him. And I didn't have any really good horse at the moment, so I just took a chance and asked her if I could train him for her for a while. And then she never got him back.

Lionel: 17:55

Yeah, it's a classic, I have to tell you. How many times we heard like, I just took him for some time to trade him, and he never left me since then.

Åsa: 18:06

No, because then after a couple of years, she felt that she wanted to sell him. And that was not last year, two years from now. So she wanted to sell him, and we put an ad out, and I was like drowned with people interested. And then my husband, he is like the best man ever. He just said, well, Åsa, are you really stupid? We cannot, you can't sell this horse. You love him. We just have to buy him. So I bought him. Oh, wow.

Lionel: 18:38

That's cool.

Åsa: 18:39

Yeah.

Lionel: 18:40

So are you using him for breeding?

Åsa: 18:43

No, not now. He became a gelding last year, because he didn't have a lot of mares, and his blup went down, because he doesn't have so many offspring. No. So I gelded him.

Lionel: 18:57

Okay.

Åsa: 18:57

Okay. And now he is a little bit more calmer. I might regret it a bit, because now I have an offspring from him that is four years old, and he looks absolutely amazing.

Lionel: 19:08

Okay. But now you have a four year old him.

Åsa: 19:11

Exactly. So he will take over after his dad.

Lionel: 19:15

What kind of competition you participate with him?

Åsa: 19:20

With him, I focus now on T2.

Lionel: 19:23

T2, yeah.

Åsa: 19:23

He is a five-gater. Yeah. But the pace is not good enough to compete with. And we have also been riding four-gate. Okay. And he is really good in... He has good counter, he has told in all speeds, his trot is okay, but he has a lousy walk. And that is actually bad for my mood. I could compete in four-gate, but it doesn't do anything for my self-confidence, quite the other way. So I just felt like, no, we're going to stop that. I ride all gates at home, of course, but I don't compete in it.

Lionel: 20:03

No. How difficult is to train the walk? At my level, it's not easy.

Åsa: 20:08

No, I would... Maybe I'm biased now, but I would say the walk is one of the hardest gates to train. If the horse doesn't have good walk, naturally, and it isn't his best natural gate. It has a lot to do, of course, also, with that he is a little bit anxious sometimes. And to get...

Lionel: 20:33

So maybe a shorter walk?

Åsa: 20:34

Yes, because to have a good walk, they have to be really, really relaxed. And he has a hard time being that in the environment of a tournament. We can walk quite okay at home, but if it gets a little bit tense, the work...

Lionel: 20:50

Yeah, obviously.

Åsa: 20:51

So that is a difficulty. We have still something to practice on.

Lionel: 20:57

I can see that you're thinking about like, okay, yes, I should have... Yeah, I could train that. I can do that. But Titu, then?

Åsa: 21:04

Titu, that is...

Lionel: 21:06

There's no walk in Titu.

Åsa: 21:08

No, there's no walk. And he has excellent tölt from himself. Very good balance. So, that is his thing. He also loves to do the loose rain part.

Lionel: 21:23

Yes, is it?

Åsa: 21:24

Yes. He is so proud. He can do everything by himself. But we also do some T1. But Titu has become our favorite. It is hard as a Swedish woman. I like to be in control. Okay. Everyone has control issues here. But to leave the control to the other part is quite good.

Lionel: 21:54

Yes.

Åsa: 21:55

It's good practice.

Lionel: 21:56

It's good practice. You leave it to a four-legged horse that can go very fast and be scared of things. So, I don't know if the right person or right thing to...

Åsa: 22:09

Well...

Lionel: 22:10

Do you compete with other horses?

Åsa: 22:12

Yes, yes, I do. And I have been a bit, but now I have been focused on him. Last year, I competed just a little bit on another horse I have, Felix from Enghaga. But he's now home. This year, he will at least be full-time in breeding. To cover. And then we will see what he will do. He hasn't decided yet.

Lionel: 22:37

No, he didn't. You did ask him, though, it seems.

Åsa: 22:42

Yes, I did ask him, and he said, I love girls. And he has been competing for such a long time, so I think he could use a break.

Lionel: 22:55

He could use a break. Because you do a tiny bit of breeding, do you plan to show some of your horses?

Åsa: 23:04

I have a plan to show this 4-year-old stallion I have by Prins, but I won't do it myself. I will probably do the training, but I will leave the showing to a professional. Yes. But that is, of course, that would be really fun. He looks fantastic now, but you never know.

Lionel: 23:25

You're not only a successful rider, a competition rider, you're also known for being a judge. Am I right to say international judge?

Åsa: 23:34

Yes, you're right.

Lionel: 23:36

Can you tell us why becoming a judge? It cannot be as broad as that. So as a question.

Åsa: 23:41

I think it's because of my... I'm a very curious person.

Lionel: 23:45

Yes.

Åsa: 23:46

I love to learn new things. And when I started with Icelandic, started riding, started competing a bit, I just wanted to know more about it. So I thought, maybe a good idea to go to the judges' training. And that was in 1996. So I went through the local judges' training, and then I was just stuck in it. It's so amazing to see horses and riders and analyze them, and it makes you both a better rider, but also I find it so interesting to see how they can improve and what they are doing really good. And you can use the good parts you see and try to do it yourself. And the things that are not so good, you can try to avoid it.

Lionel: 24:42

All right, you do believe that it helped you as a rider?

Åsa: 24:45

Absolutely. And I think it's a super combination to be both, because as a judge, I think my riding experience also helps me a lot, because I can put myself a little bit in the shoes of the riders, sometimes to understand how they feel and what is going on inside of them. So I think it helps me a lot. But I just found myself really interested in judging and wanted to learn more. So I also went to... I don't remember when that was. I became a national judge, being able to judge a little bit.

Lionel: 25:28

So it's a different level, right?

Åsa: 25:30

You started at local level, and then you go to national level. And after that, I also went to the highest level with international judge in 2007. And that's when the crazy years started. After that, I have been judging a lot. Okay. And that is...

Lionel: 25:53

And you still do?

Åsa: 25:54

Yes, I have judged a little bit less, like the last two, three years, just because I think it's so fun to ride now when I have a good horse. But I have been doing like six world championships, six or seven Nordics, and I think national championships in almost all countries that has Icelandic horse tournaments.

Lionel: 26:20

Oh, wow. So Iceland, Europe?

Åsa: 26:23

Yes. I haven't judged Landsmoot. I think that is what is missing.

Lionel: 26:28

Is it something that you would like to...

Åsa: 26:30

Now they have started to do some sports competition also in Landsmoot. So, yeah, maybe. Why not?

Lionel: 26:35

Why not? And this year in Switzerland, are you going to be a judge in Switzerland?

Åsa: 26:40

No, I didn't apply for this time.

Lionel: 26:42

You need to apply?

Åsa: 26:43

No, they have a system where you apply to judge, and they also have a rule that says that not the same judges are supposed to be judging every time.

Lionel: 26:57

Okay, there is a rolling...

Åsa: 26:59

Yes.

Lionel: 27:00

Okay, all right.

Åsa: 27:01

So, I just thought I could skip this time. And it's all, of course, always super inspiring and fun to be judging the World Championships. But I think it is as fun to judge the small tournaments.

Lionel: 27:18

Oh, okay. Is it because you... Is it more intense or is it just...

Åsa: 27:23

I don't know. It's just different on the World Championships. Of course, you see these fantastic horses and excellent riding skills that you might not see so many of everywhere else. But at smaller tournaments, you see people in development phases and you maybe see them more than once in a year, so you can see where they're going. And I think that is so inspiring.

Lionel: 27:50

Do you keep that in your head sometimes? You're like, oh, yeah, I remember seeing that.

Åsa: 27:53

Yes, I do. I cannot, of course, let my judging be influenced by it, but I have quite a good memory.

Lionel: 28:03

Okay. Oh, wow. Let's say someone listening to us does not know how a competition for Icelandic horse is, or what do we judge? We're judging the gates of the Icelandic horses. What is different? How do you judge gates in a way?

Åsa: 28:22

It's a big one. Yeah, it is a big question. Well, I would say that, of course, we ride on an oval track and we don't do these exercises. So the only thing, so to speak, we do is to show the gates the best way we can. And as a judge, I have some things that I look at. And the main thing should always be the communication between the rider and the horse. So the riding skills and the contact between the rider and the horse is a very, very important thing. Yes. And then, of course, it is the beat and the balance of the gate. So if the beat is poor, then you are on your way to moving to another gate, then the mark can never be really high.

Lionel: 29:11

Yes.

Åsa: 29:12

We judge how relaxed the horse is, both physical and mental relaxation of the horse. We look at the outline and how the horse moves, and also then the execution of the different parts, if it is like the right correct speed, if there are transitions in the correct places, and such. And it is more difficult than one could believe to ride 250 meters without doing any exercises. You just move straight ahead.

Lionel: 29:46

Yes. From the outsider point of view, it's just like they just go around.

Åsa: 29:51

Yeah, exactly. But it is really hard to keep the gait consistent and supple.

Lionel: 29:58

Without pulling, without making feel like there is a miscommunication or arm to the horses, etc.

Åsa: 30:08

Exactly.

Lionel: 30:10

It's funny that you're judging the communication of the rider with the horse, I meant.

Åsa: 30:15

Yeah. And that is becoming more and more important. We have this horse welfare discussion, of course, in our business as all horse sports has. So from this year, they have made it even more important in the judges' guideline that you have to have a good communication and the horse can't show too many conflict markers, to get notes. So I think it will be really interesting to see where that can take us.

Lionel: 30:47

Talking about animal welfare, I think it's last year or the year before that the rules started to change regarding to the beat as well. Yeah. It's a big thing that changed a lot, I think. Is it last year or that?

Åsa: 31:03

Two years.

Lionel: 31:04

Two years ago. Can you explain a bit, well, maybe your point of view, but why did we do that? The idea behind it?

Åsa: 31:12

The idea behind it was that a normal horse should be able to be ridden on any of these four permitted bit types. And I mean, your horse can be a non-competition horse for many reasons. It can be like, it doesn't have the... The psyche. There can be different reasons for horses not to be competition horses. And one of them could be that it's impossible to ride on a normal bit. And we went from having a list of forbidden bits, and it was very easy when a bit got forbidden to just make a slight difference. Yes, and be able to use it. So they just took the complete, the other direction and decided there are four permitted types that you can ride on. And if it's not possible to ride on it, well, then...

Lionel: 32:12

You're not competing.

Åsa: 32:13

No. And I think it has become better, but we still have a long way to go.

Lionel: 32:20

Yes. Do you think the Icelandic world is ahead of the curve on that? Or are we really trending with the other horse world competition?

Åsa: 32:32

I think both. We are ahead because we are discussing it a lot and we have made adjustments.

Lionel: 32:39

Yeah, this year again.

Åsa: 32:40

Yes, this year again. So I think that is a very good thing. But we also have some issues as the other sports have, like with a lot of injuries on the horses in the mouth. And we see that on competition. OK. And we share that with the other horse sports. So there, I think there we are more or less the same.

Lionel: 33:08

Before we started recording, I asked you if you were a sports judge. You said yes. But I still got to ask, you're not judging Guidinga, right?

Åsa: 33:16

No, I'm not judging Guidinga. I did go to the Guidinga judges training program just because I am curious. I love to learn more. And I have a lot of students that train for me that also compete in Guidinga.

Lionel: 33:32

Right.

Åsa: 33:32

So I wanted to know more about it. But I chose not to go to the exam. I was hoping maybe I could pass it. But I think the riders need people that are really, or judges that are really focused on what they do. And my time is just not enough to judge Guidinga as well. So I wouldn't be any good at it, I think.

Lionel: 33:59

You will have to do it on the side, I guess.

Åsa: 34:01

Yes.

Lionel: 34:02

You don't ride Guidinga yourself?

Åsa: 34:04

A bit.

Lionel: 34:05

A bit. Okay. But you mainly ride sports? Yeah, okay.

Åsa: 34:09

Mainly sports.

Lionel: 34:10

So obviously, I guess it's a question of you ride sport, you judge sport, and Guidinga is a bit on the side for you? Yes. Not for people, this only thing that they ride, but obviously, okay.

Åsa: 34:24

And I think Guidinga is a super compliment to sport. It's very good. It teaches kids and young people to ride forward. Also, I mean, thinking forward is the first thing. When you train a horse, they need to go forward. So I think, especially in Sweden, when people like more control, it's really good for us to ride Guidinga.

Lionel: 34:49

Judging is very much, you have rules, right, for a judge?

Åsa: 34:53

Yes.

Lionel: 34:54

How difficult is to have a harmony between the judges? Do you talk about it before the competition starts, on how you're going to judge, or it's pretty well documented? So the consistency between the judge are pretty much all right?

Åsa: 35:13

It is quite difficult, actually, because all the judges, even if we have a very strict system of how we're supposed to do it, it has a lot to do with your knowledge and experience and both how much you know and how much horses you have seen and how many different horses and riders you have seen. And also you have to be very open to learn new things. That is a very big part of being a judge, that you have to look yourself for what is new in the horse sport. You cannot just sit and wait for someone else to feed you with what is new.

Lionel: 35:59

You need to go out there, judge, see horses.

Åsa: 36:03

So it can be difficult to be a really conformed group.

Lionel: 36:08

Yes, yeah. And it's a bit weird, maybe. Is the nationality of the judge also impact how they judge? Is someone from Iceland, a Danish, a Swede and a German, do you see like, okay, yeah, they tend to, I don't know, maybe the Icelanders, they tend to slow tempo, is a bit faster than what you would consider a slow tempo.

Åsa: 36:32

Yes, I think you could see like local differences. It doesn't have to be country-wise, but you can tell if some judges have been judging a lot together, because it becomes like small subgroups of judges. And it's not so strange, because you get no feedback when you're judging. The only thing you know is what the other judges give. And we of course also discuss. So if you are a couple of people that judge a lot, you discuss a lot together. And as human beings, we always try to close in on each other.

Lionel: 37:14

Yes, absolutely.

Åsa: 37:15

So naturally, we can see some differences. And that is also why almost all countries, they want to get in new people and try to make the judges move around a bit.

Lionel: 37:29

Right. You make my life very easy, because I had one other question. Like, do we have a shortage of judge?

Åsa: 37:37

Both yes and no. We have a lot of licensed judges, both in Sweden and internationally. But there are quite some, the judge, very few tournaments every year.

Lionel: 37:50

Okay.

Åsa: 37:52

And well, so both.

Lionel: 37:55

On the paper, on the pure paper, you're like, we have enough judge, but the practicality is that maybe some of the judge don't practice enough. Okay.

Åsa: 38:05

Yeah. And of course, it is difficult because everyone has a life, and most people do something else. You cannot live by or from judging. So you always have to like choose to judge instead of doing something else. And yeah, that's where interest comes in.

Lionel: 38:29

Yes. There is still a need for new judges.

Åsa: 38:32

Yes.

Lionel: 38:33

Okay. That judge, yeah. How often do you judge? Like a year, for instance? Did you ever count?

Åsa: 38:40

Yes. I do some counting, and we have also a system where I have to judge a certain amount of days every year to keep it.

Lionel: 38:51

To keep your license?

Åsa: 38:53

Yes. But that's not so much. I have to do only 15 days every three years to keep my international license. That's very little. And I do that in a couple of months, usually.

Lionel: 39:11

You're overachiever.

Åsa: 39:12

Yes. But there are people judging more than me. There are some judges that judge every weekend. I also try to teach a bit and write myself, just because it's fun to do different things.

Lionel: 39:26

Is there enough competition?

Åsa: 39:28

Yes.

Lionel: 39:28

Yes. Okay. And I guess to stay an international judge, you need to judge internationally.

Åsa: 39:36

Yes.

Lionel: 39:37

What is the weirdest place you ever judged? Maybe it's not internationally, but...

Åsa: 39:43

Well, not so weird, but maybe interesting. I have been judging in the Californian wine district with...

Lionel: 39:53

Okay, Napa Valley.

Åsa: 39:54

Yes, with vines growing all around me and painted grass.

Lionel: 40:01

Excuse me?

Åsa: 40:02

Yeah, the grass was painted. When we judge the international judge's outfit, it is like light trousers and a blue jacket. And in a break, we sat down in the green grass. It was really, really nice having our lunch. And when we stood up, we were all completely green because the grass was painted. It was so yellow because it's so dry there.

Lionel: 40:29

It's dry there, yes.

Åsa: 40:30

So that was kind of interesting.

Lionel: 40:34

Oh, wow.

Åsa: 40:34

All right. The US has quite some oval tracks, and they are, the American Association, they are really active.

Lionel: 40:42

Yeah, yeah.

Åsa: 40:43

And they have a lot of tournaments on different places.

Lionel: 40:47

Yes. Talking to some of them, it's very spotty. That's the only thing that they say, is that there is spots of a lot of people, but it's not, it's, yeah, it's, based on our own trainer. This is what they were telling us when we had the chance to talk to them, to some of the people in the US. A small question, you mentioned that the FEIF just updated the rule this year. It's as of the 1st of April, right? Yeah. Anything that you feel out of those new rules that make your life easier or harder, or what do you think about those changes?

Åsa: 41:30

I think it makes my life much more interesting, some of the changes. And I would say that is the changes to the judges' guidelines. They made some changes, made an extra firewall in the... Yes, in the gates. In the gates, yeah. And that is when it comes to writing skills and connection. And I'm really looking forward to see where that can lead us. It is quite clear that we don't accept any signs of discomfort from the horse.

Lionel: 42:02

It's a good statement. It's a really good statement.

Åsa: 42:04

It's a very good statement. So now I feel it's up to us, judges, what to do with it.

Lionel: 42:10

Right.

Åsa: 42:11

It's super important that we show that we don't just talk about it, but also act on it and that we deep down really care about the horses. Yes.

Lionel: 42:24

Because deep down, this is really what it's all about, right? It's like that our horses are protected and we make sure that we're protecting the horse from harm or any mistreatment in a way. Do you happen to watch competition on the TV?

Åsa: 42:40

Yes.

Lionel: 42:41

Do you judge them?

Åsa: 42:43

Well, do I have to be really honest now?

Lionel: 42:47

You can absolutely lie. It's fine.

Åsa: 42:49

OK. No, I never. I'm just kidding. It would be almost impossible for me not to do it, because the marks, they just pop up in my head. All right.

Lionel: 42:59

Do you take a piece of paper and give comments as well?

Åsa: 43:02

No. There, I draw the line. But I do watch online tournaments like Mestere Dale and Ice Horse Festival and all those. And I just do it because I love Icelandic sports. I want to learn more. And we have so many really skilled judges out there that I can learn from. So I love to just watch it and see what they do with different kinds of performances.

Lionel: 43:30

So, but to come back to the question, so you're judging and then you compare, you're not like, okay, yeah, I'm a bit below. Do you learn a bit from that?

Åsa: 43:39

Yeah, I think I do. I think every time you look at a horse and analyze it, you learn something. And of course, it's some judges I have a lot of respect for. So, I maybe tend to look at the competitions that they are judging just to get feedback. And I also sometimes ask them. I have some judges friends that are as crazy as me. And sometimes we sit there on a Saturday evening, sending films back and forth. And can you judge this for me? And then we have like an online discussion about it.

Lionel: 44:18

Yeah, that's cool.

Åsa: 44:19

Yeah, it is really, I think it's really nice. And if you want to be better at something, you just have to practice it a lot.

Lionel: 44:26

Yes. Yeah, absolutely. We've seen some conversation about disability and taking into account disability or having a rider with disability competing.

Åsa: 44:39

Yes.

Lionel: 44:39

Is there, is there, as a judge, is there ways that you can go around, if you see someone with disability riding? Or is it taking into, is it taken into account when you judge? Or is there a different type of judging for disabled rider?

Åsa: 44:58

No, not really. We haven't come that far yet because we have so few riders with disabilities now. But in Sweden, we have a project with Svenska Islasästförbundet, where we are trying to make it easier for people with disabilities. So we have some things that they can use to make it easier for them, but they are judged the same way. But if you have a disability and you have a certificate from your doctor, you can be able to have special reins, double whips. You just need to ask for it from the association. And I think we will see a lot of more riders with disabilities, because our horses are just very well fit for it. But if we look at other horse sports, it's quite a complicated system. You have to get a doctor's appointment, where they decide what level of disability you have, and then you are put in to different levels. We don't have that yet, but I think we will see a lot more of it.

Lionel: 46:16

You already had that? You already had a rider coming to you with, okay, I'm a disabled rider? Yes.

Åsa: 46:23

So we have some. In Sweden, we have a few people that use special reins with handles on them, so they don't have to hold on so tight to the reins. And we have some that ride with double whips. We have a lady riding without stirrups.

Lionel: 46:41

Okay.

Åsa: 46:42

That's the ones I remember just now, but there are some.

Lionel: 46:45

Okay. And you feel it's coming. I mean, there is riders with disability, so obviously it's good that they are coming to compete as well. That's it. Thank you, Åsa, for coming and talk to us. I hope you enjoyed it.

Åsa: 47:02

Yeah. Thanks for having me. It was great fun.

Lionel: 47:04

Thank you. And thank you, everyone, for listening. We will come back very soon with a new episode. In the meantime, do not hesitate to share this episode. And before leaving you and leaving Åsa, I would like to mention that you can follow us on Instagram and Facebook, The Tölt Tales, for more news and stories. Goodbye, Åsa.

Åsa: 47:24

Goodbye.