The Tölt Tales

Episode 19 - Elina Enzian

• The Tölt Tales • Season 2 • Episode 9

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We managed to spend some time with Elina Enzian, one more amazing person gravitating around our favorite horses. Elina is helping people all over Sweden with loading and help owners to change behavior of their horses.

We had a lot of fun of getting to know more Elina and her background, her technique as well as her passion for the icelandic horses. 

You can find Elina here: 

Feel free to reach out to her if you want her help.

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Music by Cob.
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Ariane:

Welcome to The Tölt Tales Podcast. Today, I sit here with Elina Enzian. Maybe, Elina, you can present yourself just with a few sentences, and then we can dive into our conversation.

Elina:

Yes, thank you for inviting me here. My name is Elina, and I'm from Sweden, and I'm 32 years old. And I've been into horses my whole life, kind of. The loading thing started way back in time, I would say. I was 12 years old, and I was in Flyinge, at Monty Roberts Clinic. And I really liked his method, and I'm a very curious person. So, I started to learn his method when I was 12 years old. And I started here in Sweden. And one thing went to another thing. So, I then went to Monty's farm in California. Yeah, that's a very long time ago now. But in 2013. And then I just took the whole education. And in 2017, I became a Monty Roberts instructor.

Ariane:

Yes, I read that, that you actually, you were the youngest certified Monty Roberts instructor at that time. I don't know if anybody broke kind of your record.

Elina:

I don't know. Yeah, I think there is some that have been younger than me, but I was the youngest in Northern.

Ariane:

Yeah, in the Northern countries, like the Nordics.

Elina:

Yeah, the Nordics, exactly.

Ariane:

So, but Monty Robert is not necessarily known for Icelandic horses, right? It's more...

Elina:

No, exactly.

Ariane:

I'm actually not sure which horses, quarter horses, Mustang...

Elina:

Yeah, Mustang, quarter horses. And he were a lot in England with the Queen of England. Oh, wow. And he was training her horses, and he was also training race horses a lot and became famous for that.

Ariane:

So you're actually a trainer, a teacher by education, and you train children. Yes.

Elina:

So I've been a teacher for some years. I don't work as a teacher right now in the school, but I've been working in schools for like 10 years. So I really like to teach people things. I've been doing this education, to learn with horses. Yes. So that's the thing I want to do more of.

Ariane:

Yeah.

Elina:

Super cool.

Ariane:

So that is your side project.

Elina:

Exactly. That's my side project. Yes.

Ariane:

But then actually, we wanted to talk to you about loading, because this is something that we got questions from our listeners that said like, hey, you in Sweden talk to Elina, because she's great with loading horses, she's great in educational approaches. So here you are.

Elina:

Yeah.

Ariane:

And now we talk about loading horses.

Elina:

Yes. That's my favorite topic. Maybe not for someone else, but I really like it.

Ariane:

Yeah. I think it's super cool. And you did already a lot of, you did other podcasts, you did also, I'm not sure, I didn't see the whole thing, but it's with a Dutch guy, Jesse Drent.

Elina:

Yes, exactly.

Ariane:

You did something?

Elina:

Yes.

Ariane:

Can you just briefly say like what you did there? Because I saw it and I thought like, I really want to look into deeper, but I didn't have the time yet, unfortunately.

Elina:

Yes. Jesse Drent, he worked for Horse World TV. And he and his team came to Sweden, came and were filming me for a whole day, working with a horse. So that was very interesting and very fun.

Ariane:

Yeah, I just also know him from social media, and I'm like, I think it's very fascinating the way how he works with horses. So how did it start that you decided that this is your day-to-day job? Like, where did the idea come from? And how did you set up? And what is now your, like, what is your everyday day looking like?

Elina:

Yes, so in this education at Monty Robots Place, we learn a lot of how to change behaviors. So of course, loading is one of that topic that you have to change behavior. And I think it just started around 11, 12 years ago, and I started to load some horses. And it went very well. And then, you know, horse people talk to other horse people, and then they talk to other horse people. So then I started to load more horses. And yeah, then it had become just a very interesting topic for me, and I really learn more every day from different kind of horses. And it's also so interesting because, yeah, you can have 10 horses that are hard to load, but the reason behind the problem is different for every horse. So I really like to find the real main problem and then help the horse to overcome that. It can maybe be something with the trailer that I have to adjust or change. It can be that I need to train the horse outside the trailer before, in some ways.

Ariane:

So you don't directly start with the trailer, not for every horse?

Elina:

No, exactly. It just depends on the horse. So if it's a horse maybe that have a really problem with them, that it's claustrophobic, then I can train the horse outside the trailer before, in different ways. And also if the horse is afraid of things behind, I can also train it in a different way without being in the trailer.

Ariane:

So, I saw that you're now here, we're sitting now in southern Sweden, in Skåne, and you are located also in Skåne, right?

Elina:

Yes, that's true.

Ariane:

But you provide your services all over Sweden.

Elina:

Yes, I would say. So, now people around Sweden contact me, and I try to help them, but I of course need to have a little bit more than one, if I go far away. Yes. But for an example, I'm gonna drive to Stockholm now, soon, and then I have a bunch of horses that I need to train.

Ariane:

So, you go kind of, but you always go with your own transporter, or do you also go if it's too far away, you would take a train or fly somewhere, and have something that is on-site, or how do you do it normally?

Elina:

Yes, I prefer to go with my own trailer, because I really know my trailer, and my trailer also have very much things that I can adjust. And so, depending on the horse, I can adjust it more to the horse. And of course, I also have this front out-loading, and that is like a very big part of my loading, that the horse can go forward.

Ariane:

Is it something that you would recommend to people, that if your horse has problems with loading, that you would say, okay, I recommend to you, if you look for a transporter, have something that is opening up in the front as well, so that the horse doesn't feel trapped or something?

Elina:

Yes, 100%. The trailer is very important when it comes to horses that are hard to load. So either you have like a diagonal trailer, that is also very good if you have a horse that is very afraid of the closing behind moment.

Ariane:

True, yeah.

Elina:

So in the diagonal trailer, you don't close from behind, you close from the side. And that is like a very big thing for the horse. Yeah. Like it's a big change.

Ariane:

Yeah.

Elina:

If they get close from behind or by the side.

Ariane:

Yeah, by the side, they can still kind of see with one eye, and can turn them self kind of prepare.

Elina:

Yes. And if you think about that, the horse have blind spots, so it's just under the head and just behind them.

Ariane:

Yes, where we would sit as a rider.

Elina:

Yeah, exactly. But also just behind them, like around the, yeah, behind the tail, kind of. And when we load them in the normal trailer, we do all that scary things just behind them. And if they don't have a way out, like in front of them, they of course throw them backwards often.

Ariane:

Yes. Yeah, I've seen that already. An interesting thing is also with closing the door. We had, like a couple of years ago, we went to inspection, but not just the besieging that we do here, like for the controlling that everything is okay, but for, there was somebody from the police coming and checking, making sure, because it was organized by our riding association, in case we want to go abroad, that the transporter needs to not have such a dark hood, for example, and that we have a fire extinguisher, and taking breaks every eight hours, so on, especially interesting for people that go, for example, longer distances to the world championships, for example. And one thing that the police officer then said is that a lot of people close kind of the last bit of the transporter when the horses are inside. Like, we have like a flap that rolls up, or some people have like really some kind of door or something. And the police officer said actually to us not to close it, because then there's no ventilation in the transporter. Is this also something that can lead then to the horses feeling uncomfortable? And what is your experience? What is actually practice? How would you recommend, especially in the sense of horses being a bit afraid, unsure? What is your experience with it?

Elina:

Yeah, so the ventilation in the trailer is of course very important. And yeah, some models of trailers have good ventilation, some have not. So that is very important to look at when you're buying a new trailer, for example. But at the same time, it can be, it's also about safety. So you want to close everything because it should be safe. So if you, for example, don't close the thing behind the horse, the flap or the, I don't know the English word, but...

Ariane:

What is it in Swedish?

Elina:

Övre lycka. So if you don't close that behind the horse, and for example, a big truck comes up just behind your trailer, the horse can be very scared as well.

Ariane:

Yes, true.

Elina:

So I would say it's, for the safety, it's better to close everything. And if it's a good trailer, there should be good ventilation still, if everything is closed. Yeah. Yes. And maybe sometimes you can get like help with the ventilation in the trailer. You can maybe leave it to a mechanic to make it better. Or you can maybe put a window in, or you can do something.

Ariane:

Yeah. Older models sometimes don't have windows, but the newer models, sometimes they even have a window kind of really in the height of the horse's head so that they can also observe stuff. We have this with our transporter. We have windows on the side and in the front. And we, it's also nice when you drive, you see the horse actually in your side mirror, so that I can always kind of see what the situation is.

Elina:

Yes, but it's also very important to have a camera in the trailer.

Ariane:

So you recommend to have a camera?

Elina:

Yes, 100%.

Ariane:

This is something that we want to set up. I think we have looked into. Do you have a recommendation how to set up, not kind of the brand of the camera, but how to set it up that you see it good in the transporter? Should it be on top or more in the middle somewhere?

Elina:

Yeah, you should put it high in front of the horse, I would say. Then you see especially the head, and you can see the horse's reactions and so on. And it's also about safety, because if you see the horse in the trailer, you can maybe save it before it would be a very dangerous accident or something. So if you see the horse beginning to be more and more and more stressed, then you can help it. But otherwise, if you don't see the horse, the accident can just happen very quickly.

Ariane:

True. A lot of people, I think, feed their horses actually hay. How do you handle it? Do you normally feed the horses? If you drive, if there is no problem and you're driving, how would you handle this? Would you put hay? Would you not put hay?

Elina:

I prefer to have hay, actually. Okay. But that's also, you know, it can, of course, the horse have no water. So if it's a very long trip, then the horse needs to get water as well. True. And that's also one thing that is important. If you have hay inside and you have a camera, you can, of course, see the horse. And it's maybe not very common, but they can get this food or stops for stopping. Yeah. When the hay gets stuck in their throat.

Ariane:

Yeah, like a congestion of the oesophagus.

Elina:

Yes. So that's also why you should have a camera when you have hay in the trailer.

Ariane:

Yeah, because that is very scary.

Elina:

Yes. It's not very common, though. But I would prefer hay. Then the horse gets a nice experience and it gets a little bit more calm when it can eat hay. So yes, I would recommend hay. Yeah.

Ariane:

Okay. But now we actually dive into the loading. So we talked about that you do it all over Sweden. You have your transporter. It's a front loader as well. So you have two doors. Yes. And what do you set up when you come to a place? How do you start? Yes.

Elina:

So I start, yeah, actually with a lot of questions to the horse owner. Of course, I want to know a lot about the horse. I want to know like the history, if there is some trauma behind with loading. And I also want to know how the horse is in normal handling, and also in riding. And I really want to know a lot about the horse, because sometimes the loading is not the only problem.

Ariane:

Yeah, it's just kind of the tip of the iceberg.

Elina:

Exactly. And if it's not the only problem, it can maybe be something else that caused the problem. Maybe it can be pain or some physical problems. So, if there is a lot of problems with this horse in more moments, or in other things, situations, yes, then I really want to know what's the main problem.

Ariane:

So, you first get a feeling for the horse, also maybe the owner. I assume that sometimes it's also actually the owner, the problem?

Elina:

Yes, it can be, absolutely. And it's very common that the horse owner have very high anxiety Oh, shit! around loading.

Ariane:

Okay, so maybe they have experienced something?

Elina:

Yes. So I also work with the horse owners that have trauma. Oh, wow! Yes. So, and that is very common, actually.

Ariane:

I didn't expect that.

Elina:

No, but they can be afraid of closing, close behind the horse. They can be afraid of driving the horse.

Ariane:

Yeah, that I heard.

Elina:

They can be afraid of just being inside the trailer with the horse. So there is a lot of anxiety for horse owners as well. So I really train horse owners as well to be calm and safe, and I also teach them a lot of techniques.

Ariane:

Yeah. So it is, in principle, if you would, for example, go to a place, could somebody also book you, say, the horse is actually not the problem, but I actually have a problem. Can we just focus on me?

Elina:

Yes, I also have that customer. Yes.

Ariane:

Okay.

Elina:

And so, yeah, that's also a very fun part with this job. I also work very much with people.

Ariane:

Yes.

Elina:

And yeah, psychology, both in people and in horses. Yeah.

Ariane:

This is actually then the next thing that I want to ask. Like, let's say you load your horse, can you explain a bit how you do this?

Elina:

Yes, I have my system that I can adjust for every horse, but I have a system, so I always work with the horse first from the ground. And it's very important that the horse can just stop and get backwards, and I can move it all around very easily, and that the horse listens to my body language in a very sensitive way. And that's common, that the horses that are hard to load, they are also hard to walk with and handle. So that's just the first step. And then I often have just a big wooden plank, and that's very good, because that's symbolized the ramp of the trailer. So I just do this simple exercise first.

Ariane:

Yes.

Elina:

And when I do that, I also can read a horse how it reacts on this wooden plank. Yeah. And some horses just walk over it, and then I know, okay, it's not like the problem to step on things. But some horses, it can take like 5-10 minutes to just get the horse to go over this thing.

Ariane:

Wow.

Elina:

Yeah. But it's a very good and easy exercise, and especially for young horses, it's very important that they can step on different things and surfaces. Yes. So that's like the beginning, and then I go to the trailer, and I can also work a lot with different things, just like around the ramp and outside and close to the trailer. Yeah. And a very common problem is that the horse go just beside the ramp. Yep. So then we have to train about that to get the horse to be straight. And it's a lot of things also, so I pay much attention to the body of the horse.

Ariane:

Yeah.

Elina:

If it's crooked or something and unbalanced, it's gonna be harder to load it. So I want the horse to be balanced and straight. And then we take it step by step more into the trailer. And the first step in trailer loading is that the horse want to go in and want to stay inside.

Ariane:

Yeah.

Elina:

And often that's like the problem start or that's the main problem. They don't want to go in, and when they come in, they don't want to stay.

Ariane:

Rush out.

Elina:

Yeah, they rush out. So that's just the absolutely beginning of it. Yeah. And that's also like the first session. I would say we just continue, and that's the first step. But when the horse have like settled down and be more safe in there, I always let the horse get a pause for maybe 15 minutes.

Ariane:

Okay. So you don't, of course, horses get tired, so you take a break and then start again.

Elina:

Yes. And the reason I also give the horse a break is because then I can train the horse owner. So I actually load the horse owner. So the horse owner get to hold the long line, and then I load it, depend on how the horse reacts. And then I train the horse owners how to be aware of their timing, of their position. And how we can train the horse to be more easy around the trailer. And then we switch around. So the horse owner loads me.

Ariane:

Then you the horse.

Elina:

Yes. And then they train on this techniques. I teach them.

Ariane:

This is also nice.

Elina:

Yes. And it's also very good for this horse owners that are just afraid of loading. Then they can train on me first.

Ariane:

Yes.

Elina:

And get a little bit secure. And okay, they know the system. And they know, because they often ask me, what should I do when the horse do this? And what should I do when the horse do that?

Ariane:

Yeah.

Elina:

But then I have already prepared them. When I'm the horse. Yeah, true. Yeah. And then when the horse have like, have their pause, they have been drinking maybe, or so on, we take the horse again, and I train it a little bit more. And then I often let the horse owner load their horse. And I stand beside and talk to them and give them instructors.

Ariane:

Yeah.

Elina:

And exactly. So that's a typical first session, I would say.

Ariane:

So first session, how many sessions do you do normally? And how long is one session, roughly?

Elina:

Yeah. So it's of course hard to fix a big problem in just one training. So then I would say at least three to more sessions. I've been working with some horses for one year. When they are really traumatized, I would say. But of course, you need to have in mind that I need at least three times to really help you. Because of course, the first step is just to go inside, but then we have all the closing parts. True. And that's like a really big part. And then maybe we need to drive the horse as well. Some lesson or...

Ariane:

Yeah, when you close it, then you might actually, the moving of the transporter can also be like a cause for anxiety for the horse, right?

Elina:

Yes, exactly. It's not that very common that the driving is a problem. It's more like walk on the trailer and closing it. But of course, there is some horses that also have a problem with the driving. And that's a little bit more tricky.

Ariane:

Yeah. When you then train, so you say like at least three sessions, you would recommend. And how long is one session roughly?

Elina:

Yeah, one session, like the first session, I actually have two, two and a half hour, because we talk a lot about the horse, and the horse gets paws, and I train the horse owner and so on. Of course, it's not two and a half hour training for the horse. It's maybe one, one and a half hour. And it's not like a physical training, it's more mental. But sometimes, to just get a new behavior, to break a pattern, and create a new behavior, we need to work a little bit longer to make that happen.

Ariane:

Do you also recommend homework?

Elina:

Yes, exactly. So, of course, it depends on the horse and the owner and so on. But yes, I give them homework. It's more important that I do it good than often.

Ariane:

Yes.

Elina:

So, sometimes they ask, how often should I train? And then I say, just do it when you are in a good mood, and have a good time and everything. And you also maybe feel that today is a good day for loading training with my horse. So, it's just the quality of the training.

Ariane:

To set it up really nicely, not when you're stressed, when it's after work, you had a fight with your partner, exactly, something like this, or the horse is already, like, agitated because his friends all get feeding and...

Elina:

Exactly. So, choose the right moment.

Ariane:

Yeah. Well, this is good advice, because also for riding horses sometimes, or working with any animals, I think you always need to be able to clear your mind and just be in the moment and not take whatever happened on the day before with you.

Elina:

Exactly. Yeah.

Ariane:

Super cool. Okay, so now you are in the transporter. How do you handle this?

Elina:

Yes. So, when the horse is calm and wants to go inside the trailer, it can stand for a long time, then the horse is ready for the closing. And that's also the main problem that people just get the horse in, and then they say, just close it as fast as you can.

Ariane:

Yeah, to avoid that they directly run out again. Exactly.

Elina:

But if they run out again, it's just, then they are not comfortable to be in there. So, if you start to close the horse, behind the horse, when the horse doesn't want to be in there, then you kind of break the trust between you. And then the horse starts to get very suspicious, and it starts to, yeah, throw it backwards, and then it don't want to go inside, and so on. So, you really, you cannot like, the trust is very important when it comes to loading.

Ariane:

So, you can actually make the problem worse, if you do it this way.

Elina:

Yes. So, it's very important. So, when the horse is mentally ready, then we can close behind the horse. When it comes to horses that have like a trauma of the closing. And so, you have to be aware, and you have to really be good at reading the horse. When to don't continue, and when to continue. Yeah. So, that's very like a big part of it. I also tell the horse owners, okay, now the horse holds its breath, and it's very tense. So, do not do anything more now, because then it can explode.

Ariane:

Yeah.

Elina:

Just the closing is, can be a very big part for a long time.

Ariane:

Yeah.

Elina:

But for some horses, it takes just one lesson. So, it depends.

Ariane:

I know that now more and more of the modern trailers have, also if it's like not in the diagonal, but actually the standard way of horse facing front, with two horses, for example. A lot of those have that you can either take the divider or the spacer to the side or even completely remove it. Is this also something that you recommend to start with a bigger space? Yes, exactly. To give the horse a better feeling, maybe?

Elina:

Yeah. I always start to train the horse in an empty trailer because then I have more space and the horse have more space. And then when we put in the inredning, like the stuff inside, the stuff inside, exactly. But when I put the stuff in again, I get really good information from the horse. If it's something with the environment in the trailer, that is the problem. And some horses have problems with the front bar as well. Okay. And then I get the information about that. An example for very big horses, I mean, like 170 plus, then the size of the trailer is very important. Because sometimes I come and I see the horse, and the horse is really big, and then I look at the trailer, and I see that the trailer is not really big. So I also measure the horse from the front to the end, and I get the distance between the bars inside the trailer. And sometimes the horse and the between the booms are the same.

Ariane:

So that must be also really uncomfortable for the horse, if you squeeze it in and then you close, and then you're like, okay, now we go.

Elina:

Yes, they need to have a lot of space.

Ariane:

Yeah.

Elina:

And some horses cannot be driven with the stuff inside. Then you have to take that out. Yeah. And you have to do special adjustments for the horse.

Ariane:

Yeah, this is actually how we picked up, we picked up Arion, our youngster, from Skåniland last year. And we removed everything in our transporter. It only has like the back.

Elina:

Yeah.

Ariane:

We don't have a front opening, but we can remove everything inside the transporter. And because we didn't know he was not loaded so much, Nils put him from one field to the other, but then they go with several horses, and how you transport youngsters.

Elina:

Yes.

Ariane:

And so we knew that he goes on, but we didn't know if he knows how to be attached in this small space. So we put him in there, everything empty, and then closed everything, of course, and then we drove.

Elina:

Yeah. That's the safest way of driving a young, experienced horse, actually. Yeah. Yeah, because they don't know how to get tied, and they don't know how to stand in this narrow space and so on.

Ariane:

Exactly.

Elina:

And then they start to jump over the bar, and then they can start to panic.

Ariane:

Yeah. I've seen that also already.

Elina:

Yeah.

Ariane:

And this is something that is also maybe interesting. Now, we didn't talk so much about Icelandic horses, but in the Icelandic horse world, I see this, that you really, you unload your horses, especially maybe if you have a small truck, it's okay. But if you have like a transporter, you take the horses out, you put them in a small paddock.

Elina:

And the good thing with the Icelandic horses, it is that they are very small. So, it's much easier to train these little horses, because the way of loading is more, you have more alternatives. Yes, okay. Because if you have a normal trailer without the front door, or like the front ramp, you can empty the trailer, and then you can go inside, and then you can turn the horse around.

Ariane:

True.

Elina:

Yeah. So, if you have a horse, an Icelandic horse, that are hard to close from behind, you just empty it, go in, and turn it around, and then you can close it, close everything behind the horse, when it have the face towards it. And then you just turn it around again, and attach it. So, that's like a really good trick you can do with the Icelandic horses, but I cannot do that with a very big horse.

Ariane:

Yes, no. Another thing that is with our trailer, what we have, what we really liked, actually, is something that we can change between the ramp into a door. And I know that a lot of those transporters for Icelandic horses, they have a door, like a step up. And also in the US, I think they have that a lot rather than the ramp. And you said that the ramp can be a problem for some horses. What is your take on this?

Elina:

Yeah, it's very good to have a trailer that you can change between the ramp and step up. And sometimes I need to take the ramp away and just train the horse with a step up.

Ariane:

So you can do this with your transporter?

Elina:

Yes, I can do.

Ariane:

Super cool.

Elina:

Yes. I have the I for Williams trailer and I really like them because you can adjust it in so many ways. Yes. So that's really just very good to have that in mind if you also want to buy a new trailer, that you have this in the trailer.

Ariane:

Yeah. How can we actually bring this back to Icelandic horses?

Elina:

Yes.

Ariane:

Because you have the loading, and there are two things that I'm curious about now. So one thing is, is there a difference, main difference between Icelandic horses and any other breed to generalize while loading? And the other question is, one thing that comes in my mind with training on tighter spaces, is maybe the start box for certain pace races. Can we start first with the difference between Icelandics and other horses? Is there a difference or is it more like you would say there is no difference?

Elina:

I would say the Icelandic horses is not that explosive, or they are not that stressed and tense, I would say. When I train the big horses, they are more tense and they explode more. So I would say that is the big difference. Okay. And when it comes to pace race and starting boxes, I actually train a horse right now.

Ariane:

Okay, how do you approach this? This is, I'm really curious about it.

Elina:

So it's, of course, a little bit similar to loading. It's a narrow space, and you want the horse to be safe in there and so on. And I have like very big gates. It's, I have like 24 big gates that I can create a round pen with. So I took this gates, and they are like two meters wide and two meters high. So I created a narrow space with them. And then we have trained this horse to go in there, be calm. And the problem was that the horse started to go backwards. Oh, shit, okay. So we have been training a lot for this. The good thing is that the horse really thinks this is like a starting box or starting... So we created a good environment to train. And then of course we need to train in a real starting gate. So that's interesting.

Ariane:

Do you again start from the ground, or do you start directly with the rider on? Because that is the ultimate goal, is the horse goes in. And the problem is also in the... When you go with a transporter, you normally want the horse anyway calm, but in a starting box, you want them go in, but you don't want them necessarily to calm because they should shoot out, right?

Elina:

Exactly. Yeah, with this horse, we started a little bit from the ground, but then I let the rider be on and so on. And yeah, we just made her think forward more. And of course, that's good when she's gonna run fast.

Ariane:

Yes.

Elina:

So yeah, it's gonna be interesting when we're gonna start to train again in the spring. Yes. And then we're gonna go to Sundabacki. Super cool.

Ariane:

So you get the chance to go to Sundabacki.

Elina:

Yes, and train in the real starting gate.

Ariane:

Wow.

Elina:

Yes.

Ariane:

That's gonna be cool.

Elina:

Yeah. So that's also just changing behaviors.

Ariane:

Yes.

Elina:

That is my expertise. So I also, of course, work with horses that have other problems.

Ariane:

What would be other things that you work with?

Elina:

It can be just maybe shoeing or clipping the horse, or horses that are afraid of the vet with the vaccine needle. Exactly. So yeah, it can be a lot of problem-solving in other things as well.

Ariane:

Yeah.

Elina:

And maybe catching in the pasture, or yeah, you know, there can be...

Ariane:

So this is also something, if the horse doesn't... There are horses, I've experienced it all my life, that just don't want to be caught.

Elina:

Yeah.

Ariane:

So you also work with something like this.

Elina:

Exactly. Yeah.

Ariane:

But Elina, actually, we also need to talk about Icelandic horses and Iceland.

Elina:

Yes.

Ariane:

And, I mean, overall, we invited you to talk about the trailer loading and problems associated with this. But additionally, I actually know that you also just recently been for a longer time in Iceland.

Elina:

Yes.

Ariane:

And I would really like to hear about this. But can I first ask, like, at the moment, do you have horses? I mean, I know the answer, but can you just say, do you have horses? And can you tell us a bit about your own horses, if you have horses?

Elina:

Yes, of course I have horses. And of course I have Icelandic horses. That's the best. And yes, I bought a mare in Iceland, and she was pregnant. So I have two horses now. And this little foal, he is amazing. And I think it's very fun, because the father of the foal is Hannibal Frathovum. And he is, of course, at Mette and Gisli's place in Iceland. And I were there for nine months. And so I've been, yeah, I've seen this stallion the whole period. I've seen his offsprings get trained. I saw two four-year-old stallions shown in Fizu, and they get in first class. Yeah. So, yeah.

Ariane:

And Elias got extremely nice points.

Elina:

He had the second highest blup in Sweden.

Ariane:

Yes.

Elina:

129.

Ariane:

Yes.

Elina:

Yes.

Ariane:

But he got also very good points in the foal assessment.

Elina:

Yes, he got quite good points.

Ariane:

Yeah.

Elina:

He's a very cute little guy. Yeah, he is.

Ariane:

I recommend everybody to check out Elina's Instagram page. We will put the link into the description of the episode. Check it out and look at this cute foal and follow her anyway. But now you need to tell us about the experience in Iceland. I know you've been interviewed also for a newspaper already on it. How did you come? What was your reasoning behind going to Iceland? And how did you decide on that stable? Was there already a connection before?

Elina:

Yeah, so it started actually, again, Flyinge. It's something with Flyinge. But I met them at Flyinge, of course, and had this fantastic clinic where Vidar and Kveikur were.

Ariane:

That was absolutely amazing. You were there as well.

Elina:

It was just an amazing clinic. And actually, the day after, she had lessons for riders at Flyinge. And I went there and I was just looking at her teaching all day long. And I was very amazed over her teaching and how she didn't do the same thing with every horse and every rider. She just adjusts for that horse and that rider. And that's the same way I work, I would say. So I really liked that. And then life changed and I just felt that, oh, now it's the time, because I had a gelding before, and I had to put him down. Oh, no. And then I was like in the choice, should I buy a new horse now, or should I just do this dream? And then I did the good choice, and I wanted to go to Iceland. And I just contacted Mette, and asked her if I can come. And the main idea was for three months first, but then she wanted me to stay for nine months. That escalated? Yeah, that escalated. And of course, I couldn't say no to that. So, and yeah, then I went 25th of September last year, and came home now in July. Wow. So, yeah, I'm very thankful for this experience. It was very hard, of course, hard work, long days and so on. And I struggled a lot with my self-confidence and, you know, all that, but I went through all this and I feel now much safer. And I, of course, learned a lot of things.

Ariane:

I can imagine.

Elina:

Yes.

Ariane:

It's actually funny because when we had some months ago, we actually recorded in March an episode with Gudmar Pettersson in Hesterland.

Elina:

Yes.

Ariane:

And he also said, like, he always thought he can write and it's good and everything. And then he went to Hola and he was like, Oh, my God, I know nothing. Everybody is good. It's not just me. And it makes you very humble in a sense. But first, it's, I would say also, it's intimidating and maybe even a bit frustrating. Yes, of course, because you think you are at a level and then you have to rethink about everything.

Elina:

Yeah, and of course, everyone is so good in Iceland. So you're really like, oops.

Ariane:

But what did you do there? Like, how did your day look like?

Elina:

And it was, of course, a lot of stable work. There were 40 boxes and we had to clean them, of course, all twice a day. Yes, so and then, yeah, after lunch and so between one o'clock and four o'clock, I would say we trained horses. And it was both riding and ground work and so on. So it was, yeah, it was just very fun to work with all these different kind of horses as well.

Ariane:

Did you also get lesson with Mette? Yes.

Elina:

Or? Yeah, Mette, she gave us lessons along the way.

Ariane:

Yeah.

Elina:

So that's very fun to have.

Ariane:

Very inspirational. Yes.

Elina:

And then, yeah, we worked 12 days in a row, and then we had like two days off, and then we worked 12 days again, and then two days off. So. Oh, wow.

Ariane:

How many people were you there?

Elina:

It was me and another girl from Austria, and it was of course Mette and Gisli, and then Brynja, Gisli's daughter.

Ariane:

Yeah.

Elina:

So it was we.

Ariane:

But this must be, did you do anything else while you were there? So besides actually working at the stables, did you look around? Did you look at other stables? Did you go to competitions?

Elina:

Yeah. When we had our free time, we went to Hålar a lot, and we saw competitions and clinics, and Mette also invited us when she had lessons at Hålar. And that was very nice to see. And of course, when the spring came, we went to more competitions, and we saw gating a list and all of that.

Ariane:

We were also there, this was when we were there.

Elina:

And yeah, me and the other girl from Austria, we went to Icelandic course, so we tried to learn Icelandic.

Ariane:

How does it feel? Do you feel like comfortable?

Elina:

No, not really, maybe, but I can understand more, of course, and I can talk like the basics. So that's very fun. I love the language.

Ariane:

So how does it feel to be back home, then after such a long time away, and bringing back a house?

Elina:

Yeah, exactly. It's, of course, a little bit mixed feelings. In Iceland, it was very high tempo, and it was always something. Of course, to come home to my mare, and then see when she gave birth to the foal, and all of that, it was just very fun to come home. Because the main idea from the beginning was to let her stay in Iceland and give birth there. But then I changed my mind just in the right time. So she went home before me.

Ariane:

Yes, she arrived, and she was already there when you were still in Iceland.

Elina:

Yes, exactly.

Ariane:

I remember that.

Elina:

Yeah, so that was just the best choice I did this year, I would say.

Ariane:

Do you want to keep breeding with her, or do you say two horses is enough? And what is your goal, maybe, or expectation with Elias?

Elina:

Yeah, so the mare, I have never been ridden her or anything. So I would really like to actually try her and train her next year. Yeah, she is. And she is shown in FITZO, first prize and so on. So I want to train her, of course, to get to know her a little bit. And that's, of course, so I can continue breeding because I want to do that. That's like a really big interest for me. Yes. And if I get to know her better, I can combine her to Stallion's Easter. Yeah.

Ariane:

And you have registered your stud name.

Elina:

Yes. Yeah, exactly. Enzian. Yeah. So, yes. And yeah, the plans for Elias is, yeah, for now, he's gonna stay as a Stallion. And then we have to see what the future brings.

Ariane:

Yes.

Elina:

Yeah. It's just a lottery to breed horses. So you never know. It can have a very good pedigree and bloop and so on, but you never know what turns out. So, yeah, and it's just a high concurrence when it comes to Stallion. They need to have everything. Yeah. The good confirmation, good mind, good gates and so on. So it's not easy.

Ariane:

Now, animal welfare is very important and coming up more and more. And there's a lot of discussion, especially on social media. How does this fit with the loading? And is there anything that you see has changed? And what approaches are used now?

Elina:

Yeah. So like in the later days, it was more maybe violence and forcing methods. But the thing with loading is that this like techniques and method, they still hang in so hard. People still use brooms to like hit the horses in the bum, and they still use whips and lines, and still have very forcing methods, I would say. And when it comes to loading, we cannot use force to solve the problem. Because if we put in more force, we will actually make it a lot more worse than it was from the beginning. Maybe it's culture, and it can also, yeah, of course, be education, that the education lacks a little bit. And I think maybe the main thing is that we don't think like the horse thinks. So for us, we just have in mind, or we just think the horse should go from the stable to the training. That is just the goal. And the most important thing is the training for us. But for the horse, the loading can be, of course, very stressful. So we really have to have in mind that it's a very, very unnatural thing for a horse to do. It's like a very hard thing to just take a flight animal and put it in this little box and then it should move. So we have to really train the horses how to load. Yeah. So, yeah, I would say that's like very important to change that around trailer loading.

Ariane:

With this, actually, we say goodbye, Elina. Thank you so much for being here today.

Elina:

Thank you.

Ariane:

As always, you can follow us on Instagram and Facebook, The Tölt Tales, for more stories and news and any updates. You hear this all the time. Share, like and subscribe to our podcast. Follow us and share this with other horse interested people, enthusiasts. And with this, I say goodbye. Goodbye.

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