The Tölt Tales

Episode 20 - FFCI

• The Tölt Tales • Season 2 • Episode 10

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For the last episode of season 2, we had the chance to chat with Caroline and Lucile, both involved in the breeding section of the FFCI (La Fédération Française du Cheval Islandais).

We learn more about one of the first members of FEIF, what is means to have an Icelandic horse in France, how national and international events are supported and what the goals are for the future.

Join us!


Music by Cob.
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Lionel:

Hello everybody, and welcome to The Tölt Tales Podcast. Since we started, we always wanted to bring different voices to our podcast, different point of view that matters and makes the Icelandic horse world. We invited champions, world champions even, trainers, failures, scientists, and today we wanted to invite people representing another reality that maybe some of our listeners, some of you never encountered. And today, we invited people that live in France and represent the Fédération Française du Cheval Islandais, the French Federation for Icelandic Horses. Hello Caroline, hello Lucile, how are you?

Caroline:

Hi, I'm fine, fine, thank you.

Lucile:

Hi, I'm also fine, thank you.

Lionel:

Yes, good, good, I was scared for a second that you were not. So, before going into what is the FFCI, talking about it, what are you doing, etc., we tend to ask our guests to present themselves. So, just in a simple world, what are you doing, who are you? Caroline, do you want to start?

Caroline:

Okay, so I'm Caroline, so I'm English. For those of you, I mean, when you hear me speaking French, you realize that, but I'm English. I've been living in France since that, for over 25 years, I worked there. And I started riding when I was a kid in England. My father worked on the farm, so when we had horses, we didn't have that much access to riding lessons, but we rode native pony crosses and we rode at high speed across the countryside. That was how I grew up. And I first met the Icelandic Horses on holiday in Scotland, at some sort of a holiday camp place, lost up in Scotland, where they had a fairly large herd of Icelandic horses that they used for taking people, doing little riding tours on. So that was when I met the Icelandic Horse. And I started, first of all, I started really getting to know the Icelandic Horse better when I met my husband. And his father has been breeding horses, started in the 70s. And we took over this small breeding farm in 2010.

Lionel:

And there was Icelandic Horses breed? Or there was big horses or other kind of horses?

Caroline:

No, this was, he's been breeding Icelandic Horses. He started very small, just with a couple of mares, and he started breeding just a few horses in the 70s.

Lionel:

Okay. And where was that?

Caroline:

In the South of France, in the Southeast of France.

Lionel:

Okay. And since then, you live in the South of France?

Caroline:

Yeah, exactly.

Lionel:

Yeah. Lucile, do you want to present yourself maybe now?

Lucile:

Yes. So, my name is Lucile. I'm 27 and I'm French. Right now, I'm an engineer in agronomy. So, horses have always been a part of my life. I've been riding horses since I'm four. And I've been doing a bit of everything, kind of. I've started riding horses, you know, in a French riding school. Did very French riding things like horse jumping, a bit of dressage. Yeah, those kind of things, riding on the beach. And then I was super lucky to go to Iceland for a while. First on holidays with my family and then working there. As a tour guide for several summers. And since then, I've really taken into liking very much the breed and the way of riding Icelandic horses. And I've since then been interested in joining the FFCI and having my own Icelandic horses.

Lionel:

Cool, cool. Can I ask you like, do you own an Icelandic horse?

Lucile:

Yes.

Lionel:

An Icelandic horse, I should say.

Lucile:

Yeah, exactly. Right now, I own Icelandic mare. It's quite recent. I just bought her this year. So it's a young mare that I have to train from the start. So it's a very exciting project. I'm just starting to work with her now. So I'm very excited to see how it goes and train her and grow with her and do all those sorts of things.

Lionel:

Yeah. Is it a French-born Icelandic horse?

Lucile:

Yes, absolutely. She's born in Alsace. So I went all the way up there. I'm in the central part of France, which is a little bit of a mountainous region. So it's quite far from Alsace, maybe like a nine-hour drive. So it's not so close. But I mean, in the France, when you want to buy an Icelandic horse to get what you want. So I went all the way in Alsace and I'm very happy with the mare I got.

Lionel:

Yeah, like a stupid question, especially when I'm talking to people representing the French Federation. But why not buying an Icelandic horse from Iceland? Well, even a discussion or you just say, no, I want a French board Icelandic.

Lucile:

On from my point of view, I mean, Caroline maybe has a different one. And I think it also depends on what you're looking for. First of all, I think when you're looking for an Icelandic horse, you do have a rather good choice in France and in Europe. But the thing with France is that you can still in a bit more easier way, go and see the horse before you buy it. Of course, you can obviously do it if you want to go and visit your horse in Iceland, but it's a bit different because, I mean, Iceland is a whole trip to go there, and I mean, going to Alsace also, of course, but it's a little bit different and having worked in Iceland, I feel like it's not always easy to really have a good idea of the horse. If you just see it on a field or in a box.

Lionel:

Yeah. Online with a shaky camera or whatever.

Lucile:

Yeah, exactly, and I think it depends on what you're looking for. But I was looking for a horse that I really want to build something strong with. I mean, I don't have 10 horses, I only have one. So I'm happy to really get to know the horse before I bought it. And it just was a good fit. So here we are.

Lionel:

We will contact you in a couple of years, and then we discuss how many horses you have.

Lucile:

Yes, but I can already tell you that I only have one. That's for sure.

Lionel:

At the moment. Caroline, I'm pretty sure you have horses, if I understood well. But can I ask you like, then maybe a weird question. When is the last time you bought a horse? Or is it that long?

Caroline:

No, it's not that long ago. I think, the trouble is I can't quite remember, but I regularly, I've regularly imported horses for breeding. Right.

Lionel:

Okay.

Caroline:

So either very often I've imported mares. And the last time I imported two mares, I imported one pregnant mare and one two-year-old mare. Right. A couple of years ago.

Lionel:

Okay. Okay. And it's from Iceland?

Caroline:

Yeah, from Iceland.

Lionel:

Yeah. Because you are breeding, right? That's what you said.

Caroline:

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. We have a small, we have a small, a small breeding farm here in the southeast of France.

Lionel:

Right. So I guess bringing mare from Iceland or maybe other country, but from Iceland, just to renew the bloodline and to just to, you look for some specificity in the mares then, I guess.

Caroline:

Yeah, exactly. Then it's, I mean, it's, we have some very nice breeding stock here in France, I think. But we have this advantage in Iceland that you can, if you have someone I very much like, who I work with quite regularly and you can choose the stallions. So you have access to stallions that have different, different bloodlines and, yeah, big, big choice.

Lionel:

All right. Can I ask you how did it all started?

Caroline:

In 1968, there was a breeding farm that was, who was up in Alsace. And he actually started, he started importing horses from Iceland. And in actual fact, my father-in-law went out, I mean, when he's in the 17s and bought one of these horses, I mean, we're not never too sure about the quality of what was being sent over to France, but...

Lionel:

We heard that from other people, you know, it's fine, yes.

Caroline:

Yeah, yeah. So, but I mean, this was in the early stages, you know, so that was where it started. And when I, when I looked through, we had just in the 70s, there were just a few horses being born. And then, you know, 20, 1975, 28 horses. And then the late 70s, early 80s, they were about 80, 80 horses being born. And we had these very big, there was a big breeding farm. Sometimes they were having 30, 30-odd horses. And then we had all of these breeders that are still here. I, you know, these breeding farms, I mean, it's not the same people. I think the old guys, they've retired, and kind of resting. They've done enough. But you still have their horses here. We also had a quite big breeding farm in Belgium. These are the breeding farms that have been there for a long, long time. And now we have new breeders. Mostly, it's quite interesting, because most of the foals come from smaller breeders who are breeding a few foals a year, or people who just have a mare, or a mare or two and say, you know, let's have a foal.

Lionel:

What are you doing in the French Federation? Like, what is your assignment? I don't know how you say it. Like, your role in it or I don't know.

Caroline:

I'm a breeding leader. We call it Responsable et délevage. So it's not actually the same thing. I'm responsible for the breeding. Whereas in the FEIF, then we always talk about breeding leader. But in French, you have more this responsibility for the breeding side of things. And Lucile?

Lucile:

Yeah, I'm also part of this breeding part of the FFCI. I basically work with Caroline and the other people that are with us. But I just jump in whenever it's needed and help out as much as I can.

Lionel:

Right. Maybe it's the right time to go into... I mean, why are we talking to you? It's just to get to know the FFCI and the way it works in France. Maybe if you can present a bit, what is the FFCI and what is it since when it started maybe, and how many people, etc. Just a broad presentation of the France Association.

Lucile:

Yes. So broadly, the FFCI, which stands for the French Icelandic Wars Federation, has existed since 1991. And up to today, there is 175 members, approximately.

Caroline:

So...

Lionel:

Is it growing? Do you know that it's more and more, or it's stable?

Caroline:

I think we're growing a little bit. I think we're growing a little bit. We have... Slowly, slowly, we're growing. The Icelandic horse, really, in France, it's... It seems to have been stable for a long while. So... And, I mean, strangely, for everybody who loves Icelandic horses, and it's something that's quite difficult to understand, which we're talking about this past weekend, is that why it's actually hasn't grown faster the way it has done in Germany. That's always a big question. That's a big question we ask ourselves, because you... I mean, when you love Icelandic horses, you can't quite understand that everybody... I mean, you imagine everybody wants to ride them, but I think we're quite stable. We're quite stable.

Lionel:

It's a very interesting question, though. It's like Germany is pretty strong in the Icelandic horse world, right? It's the biggest in Europe, if I'm not mistaken, I'm pretty sure it is. And you have the Nordics in Europe, but you will think that Germany, France and England, for instance, which are historically a horse country, they will be bigger than or at the same size maybe than Germany, but France and England or UK is pretty low in terms of pretty low. Maybe it's a bit too harsh, but it doesn't grow as much.

Caroline:

Yeah, it's funny. We were talking about this with them. We've been training, training, training, doing some training, future national judges. And we were talking through this with William Fluke at the weekend. And he said, well, in actual fact, there was a big gap in the horse world after the war in Germany. Right. Whereas in the UK and in France, I think we've always had, there are already a lot of horses, so there wasn't in a way, there wasn't a space to be filled in the way that there was in Germany.

Lionel:

Okay. That's interesting.

Caroline:

You have so many native breeds, so many great native breeds. Okay, they're untold.

Lionel:

Yes.

Caroline:

But they're there. So there wasn't that gap that needed to be filled.

Lionel:

Right. Yeah. All the seeds were taken with the... And I guess, I mean, there is also a native breed in France, so I guess it's difficult to filling the gap that doesn't exist, I guess. That's something like this.

Caroline:

Yeah. I mean, we need to kick them out, really, and put the Icelandics in. It's the Fédération Française d'Équitation, which takes care of the riding part of it.

Lionel:

Okay.

Caroline:

And then we have... So we're part of that. And then we have the EFCE, Which is the Institut Francais du Cheval et de l'Équipation. Thank you, Lucile, for saving me. And this, they actually, they work as a kind of, they oversee the whole stud book. So this is the organization which will belong to it. It's a very complicated system in France because we have the government, and then there's kind of different interfaces between the Minister of Agriculture and the horses and the EFCE. They're the ones who issue our passports for that. They hold our stud book, so to speak. So all the horses that are registered with them. But then we're actually what they call organism de selection. So we control, we can decide on the stud book rules, and then that gets approved. But then they oversee it. So they oversee it.

Lionel:

Okay, so you still need to obey to their rules. You're not independent in that sense, which, okay, that makes sense, I guess. But if I understand, there is two branches. There is the sport, and there is the breeding, maybe, and there is on top of it the agriculture minister that takes over a part of it. It seems to be a French administrative network that I hear, right?

Caroline:

Yes, typical, very typical French administration.

Lionel:

Very typical French. We can say it, we can say it. I'm French, Lucile is French, you French, I'm sure Caroline now since many years. We can say it, it looks like France. It's very looking like France.

Caroline:

It looks like France. And I mean, you can actually have decided that it's, I mean, we could decide that we would be belong to another country, that the Steadbrook would be taken care of by another country or by Iceland. But then we wouldn't be part of France, so we wouldn't be able to ask for the French subsidies. So there's advantages of actually being taken care of. We register, obviously, in Worldfango, and then we have, and then everything is registered. So the numbers, the UELN number, that's given that to the French organization. So they deal with all this and the blood tests, and then we just register this information. It just goes into Worldfango.

Lionel:

Right. In France, if you have an Icelandic horse, there is only one association per se in the country, right?

Caroline:

Yeah, there's only one association that's delegated by the government to take care of the breeding.

Lionel:

Got you. Okay. Would you be able to describe a bit, because you are part of the breeding part of the FFCI, can you describe a bit the work you're doing with the breeders in France?

Caroline:

Helping breeders, so we're helping them with the stud book rules and giving advice. There's a lot of advice on paperwork. We have to also check, we have to do a big thing is we have to check how people name their horses to make sure it fits with the world's finger, the FIF rules. Yes. So we get the list of the names people have put forward when they register their horses with this at the EFCE. And we check them and make sure it fits, make sure that that's okay. What else do we do, Lucile? I mean, there's a lot of work.

Lucile:

It's about really mostly, I'd say, help out with the breeding part, with the breeders or the people. Sometimes it's not their job, but they have like a one-fold that is borne, that have a lot of questions, that kind of thing, or to put up as much information as we can on the breed, on the standards of the breed, what you're looking for. Sometimes it's very basic questions about gates, all that kind of things for the breeding at least.

Lionel:

Do you organize breeding assessment, for instance, throughout France?

Caroline:

What we usually do is we work together with breeders, and we work in partnerships. So very often it's the breeders who decide to organize the breeding assessment, and then we really help them with going through the paperwork. And sometimes we do partnerships. So what we've been doing recently is we've been organizing breeding assessments, and at the same time, we've been organizing educational weekends. So we had Elsa-Albert Dotyak, who came over for talking to us about breeding selection and breeding goals, looking at the new icefall system. And we've been generally doing those sort of things. So we're working because we don't have that much money as a small association. So we're trying to work in partnership.

Lionel:

What you did is like you organized almost like an event around the breeding assessment, I guess, just to get as many people as possible or something like this?

Caroline:

Yes. So we work on a partnership. So we will have very often, what we'll do is we had one day where it's training and learning, a seminar. And then the next day, it's the breeding assessment. So that means we can help with some of the costs for the breeders. So we can pay, for example, for the travel costs, we can take some of that on board. And that's a really good way just to work together and to be able to do something educational and to help the breeders as well.

Lionel:

How often do you know, like on average, how often do you have breeding assessment in France per year? Is it like close to one or close to ten?

Caroline:

I think we have about, quite often, we might have maybe two very small breeding shows in the springtime. And then we tend to have a couple of bigger, some of our larger breeders, they'll organize breeding assessments in the autumn. So they're having the foals assessed at the same time. And they may be a few ridden horses. So maybe about four a year.

Lionel:

Okay, okay. If I look at France, and if I look at where are the Icelandic horses, are they located all over the country, or there is specific points where you can pinpoint, oh, it's more in the south or more in the north or whatever, or you have even spread, you think?

Caroline:

We started right in the beginning, it was very much based up in the north, the northeast. Okay. Close to Germany, and it was really the, it was there where the first Icelandic horses, they came in, there was the first place where they really developed the Icelandic horse. And then it kind of moved down the country, and then at the moment, it's really developing in Brittany, Normandy. And I think we have, I mean, we have other people. It's slowly spreading, so it's, yeah, so I think we're quite...

Lionel:

It's pretty even spread now.

Caroline:

It's evening up. It's evening up.

Lionel:

It's evening up.

Caroline:

Yeah.

Lionel:

All right.

Caroline:

But it still may be that you have to go a long way.

Lionel:

You still need to drive a bit. So, when I was giving the example of, in the US, they need to drive for 12 hours. Maybe you don't need to drive for 12 hours, but you still have some drive between connecting the dots, I guess.

Caroline:

Yeah, it may be. I mean, depending... If you maybe choose a stallion, then maybe you have to drive quite a long way to go to that stallion. It just, depending on where you live or if you want to have some riding lessons with the Icelandic riding instructor, then you might not be that... anyone that close to you.

Lucile:

I'd say you usually... easily you'd need to drive a couple of hours to actually get to some place where they, you know, are specialized in Icelandic courses. Like you would probably have close to you, maybe in an hour or under an hour. Some people that have Icelandic courses, but then if you want to have a lesson, bring your mare to a stallion, go to a breeding stable, then you usually kind of have to drive at least maybe 3-4 hours. Like this could be probably true for anyone, anywhere. Maybe a bit less in the region, like as we said, in the north-east, where there's a bit more Icelandic horses, it's a bit less true, but everywhere else, then a bit more.

Lionel:

And what is true for breeding? You mentioned it, Lucile, it's true for training, I guess, then? You like the... It's a bit spotty to find a good trainer or to find a trainer, I guess, for Icelandic horses?

Lucile:

Yeah, it's the same. I mean, usually, it kind of goes together. Places that breed, they also tend to ride. It's not true everywhere, but it's the same problem. Yeah, you don't have... If you want to look for an Icelandic horse trainer and lessons, then it's pretty hard to find, we'll say. You can find them, but you mustn't be afraid to drive quite a lot.

Lionel:

For riders, do you have training camp? Is FFCI organized that?

Lucile:

As training camps, not as such, but for example, this year we have had a bit more energy put into training weeks or weekends where people would come either with their horses or without their horses to places where you have a trainer that comes especially for the event, for people that are interested in Icelandic horse riding or that they have their own horse and they don't really know how to ride them or usually it's about the gates. So there's been this that has started a little bit more this year. And it's, I'd say something that a lot of people are waiting for in France, a bit more guidance with riding and gates and that kind of thing.

Lionel:

It's a stupid question, you know, like even having international training or trainer, is it something that was thought about or the language barrier is maybe a problem? I don't know.

Caroline:

I think we have a big language problem in France. Yeah, there's a few. You can do some things with international trainers, but in general, you also, if you have someone and they can't speak French, then you have quite a lot of people who put off because they're just not going to be able to understand. So the language barrier is a big thing. And then we also have the problem of the expense. I mean, it gets quite expensive.

Lionel:

For sure. You are right.

Caroline:

Having that coming.

Lucile:

Yeah, we'll say that the biggest problem, everything combined, is the distance. Because if you bring an international trainer somewhere, you have to pay for the transport. Being a judge or a trainer, of course. Then you have the language, which is another barrier. And then you have the moment and the year and also the place, because you can't do this anywhere or everywhere, rather. So yeah, it's doable, but it's not that easy.

Lionel:

I'm saying that because we see... They travel still a lot, right? The big trainers, they can travel. But for sure, they cannot fix the language barrier. Or you need to have Caroline or yourself, Lucile, like, taking the mic and explaining in French.

Lucile:

Translating is a bit tricky.

Lionel:

Yes, it will be a bit tricky. It will be funny, though, I have to say. It does happen.

Caroline:

It does happen that some people... This is usually more... I mean, private people will be having their trainer or going to their trainer somewhere. So there are people who are doing it.

Lionel:

Do you ever look at how many oval tracks there is in France? Is there that many oval tracks in France?

Caroline:

No. No.

Lionel:

Well, thank you. Bye.

Caroline:

There's not that many. We have Pure Cheval. And then we have a few, but I'm not sure whether they're exactly those dimensions.

Lionel:

How is it to organize the French Championship? At the moment, you always did it in Pure Cheval, because you have to?

Lucile:

So basically, the French Championships, how it usually works is that there is... Basically, anyone can volunteer to organize them all over France. Of course, you have to have an oval track and everything that's needed, like everything that you need in order to organize it. But any structure that has the correct oval track and enough space and the will to organize it can candidate to do it. And if ever no one wants to do it, then the FFCI will jump in and organize it. So this is what happened two couple of years in 2024 and 25. It happened in Pure Cheval, for example, and was organized by the FFCI. But next year, it's private stable that will organize it because they applied for next year's championships. So it's going to be interesting to have another organizer. Because it's also, of course, it depends a little bit on where it's organized. It means that maybe some other people will come. Maybe, yeah, it's going to be nice, I think.

Lionel:

Okay, in my head, I thought the FFCI has always the need to organize it. But you're saying it's just like at the moment, maybe next year, it's going to be a private person and the French Federation help or no, or it's independent in that sense?

Caroline:

It's quite a little bit, maybe strange, but it's actually the FEDERATION FRANÇAISE D'ÉQUITATION. The French National Championship comes under their... Well, they oversee this. And so because it belongs to this government body that oversee it, it means that anybody can propose to organize the French Championship. So anyone can put in a proposal to organize it, and then they actually decide. It's actually not the FFCI who decides where it is. It's actually the FEDERATION FRANÇAISE D'ÉQUITATION who decides where it's going to be. So it's just that...

Lionel:

Oh, right.

Caroline:

So we can... So what happens is that if we know of someone, so next year, then we have this quick discussion with the stables who want to organize it. So and they said, okay, so we're going to put in a proposal to organize it. And we said, okay, so you put in your proposal, then we won't propose to all... Then we won't, you know, just you... Oh, right. Take it on, this is how it works. So it's not actually up to our organization. It's not actually up to the French Association, quite funnily, to say it's going to be here or here. It took me a long time when I came to France, it took me a long, long time to actually understand this whole organization, the whole everything, where everything comes together in the organization of Horse Worlds, you know, this relationship that we have and to the government and this, these all sorts of organizations. This took me a long time and I must say because this is a riding and a sport thing more than a breeding thing, I'm not exactly sure how this is.

Lionel:

I guess you are, if you win the French or like the T1, you are French champion. So the French Federation needs to say, yeah, okay, it's good. I guess it's, maybe that's their angle and they're like, okay, but that's the, those people represent France. So I don't know.

Caroline:

You have to be French to win, to be French champion. I think you have to be a French nationality. It's sometimes a little bit awkward.

Lionel:

Right. Yes.

Caroline:

For a person who actually would be maybe better or could win.

Lionel:

Better.

Caroline:

But they can't be French champion because they're not French.

Lionel:

Yeah, you need to be able to be French nationals. Yeah. Okay. Which, I mean, let's be honest, it's okay. Right. That's like, okay, yeah, it makes sense. You, if you represent your friends, maybe you, yeah, maybe you need to be French somehow. Do you know if the FFCI help the representative of France to go to international events? So this year was the World Championship?

Caroline:

Yes. Yes, we do, because we take care of on the international scale. That is completely up to the association. So we make the rules of who can become a candidate. And what scores you need to have. And we basically put together. There's a sports section, so the sports section, they won't have the rules. And they basically put together the team who participate. And they take care of this.

Lionel:

But just to bridge maybe with what more is your ally, when you send horses for breeding assessment or for the breeding world championship, then that's more on your part, then you help out or is it still within the sport?

Caroline:

No, the breeding side, that is the breeding department who takes care. So we decide what should be the minimum scores and then we send out, you know, is there any one? I mean, we don't have that many. I think it's a lot of money and it's a lot of involvement and to actually send a horse to the world championships. So, but yeah, we help out and we just have the minimum scores you have to get to participate. And then there's a little bit of financial help for those people who send their horses.

Lionel:

That's part of the FFCI mission as well to help out on that side, I guess.

Caroline:

Yes, yes, there's a team leader who, and there's just, I mean, hardly compared to the cost of actually going to that for a rider, whether it's a sport rider or a horse in breeding, it's obviously very, very expensive, but there is some, there's a commitment and there's an involvement.

Lionel:

You had French horses this year. Were you there or were you happy about how it went, genuinely? Like, you're happy every time you can send horses, I guess?

Caroline:

Yes, I mean, I think for such a small country, just to be able to send, to send have riders, we had three riders in the sports section and then we had one horse in the breeding section. And the horse in the breeding, he was a young horse. He did very well, I think, because he didn't have that much training, so he did really, really well. I mean, we were really happy with how it went. And I spent two days, I was very happy to see the French riders and how they rode, and this French horse, it was, this was a great thing. This was a great thing.

Lionel:

Yeah. I don't remember, is it the owner or the breeder who showed the horse, or it was shown by someone else?

Caroline:

We had Ellie Erlingson, who showed the Jaguar.

Lionel:

Right, yes.

Caroline:

So, yeah, who showed the horse in breeding?

Lionel:

In the coming years, is the FFCI, or the breeding part of the FFCI, has some goals in the coming years?

Caroline:

We will, in the breeding department, then we have, we have a goal is that we'd like some more national, national judges.

Lionel:

Right.

Caroline:

I mean, for me, it's, so we're in the middle of a training program for national judges. It's quite important because obviously, we'd much rather be able to have a FITSO competition, FITSO assessments, and not competition, sorry, FITSO assessments and to be able to have just international judges and to come up to standard. But it's, for a small country, it's quite difficult. And we have the feeling that if we have some national judges, they can also act as advisors at the same time. It's, I mean, obviously, they're assessing horses and giving scores, but it's also a whole part of the education and the advising that we need to be developed so that people actually have access, have more access to education so that they can make better breeding choices. And this is something that I think I would love to be able to develop more. It's quite difficult with limited resources, but I think this is a goal. This is a goal, is education.

Lionel:

It is interesting, though, like if you say that the first breeders were from the late 70s, and it's quite early, you know, by any mean, like I'm pretty sure I remember that the French Federation was one of the first in FEIF. It was one of the first batch, if I remember well. But it didn't pick up. Like we discussed at the beginning, it didn't pick up even though breeders existed from 40, 50 years now.

Caroline:

Yeah, yeah. We stayed quite even and we've always stayed between 80 and 100 foals being born per year. It's always been around about this level sometimes. And it seems to go a little bit lower, then it picks up again and then a little bit lower again. But we don't seem to be able to come over that mark. This would be my dream.

Lionel:

To go above the 100 foal or the 200 foal.

Caroline:

Yeah, 200 foals a year. That would be wonderful. It's a strange thing because I think that there's a big demand for horses in France. And there's quite often people who can't actually find horses. I don't know. Would you say the same, Lucile, who looked for a horse for some time? It's actually quite difficult to find a ridden horse, a ridden horse, a ridden French horse to buy one, French-born horse. It's quite... there aren't that many.

Lionel:

I guess there is a question of also like, to want to have an Icelandic horse, which is a bit... it's a bit special, right? You need to ride the gates, etc. You... I guess it's easier to buy a three-gated horse because you have trainer, you have facilities that are... it's closer to you, I guess. That's where the... that's where the crook of it a bit maybe comes from.

Caroline:

Maybe, maybe. I don't know. Quite often, I think it's maybe a little... I'm not so sure what is actually... what's stopping the expansion of the Icelandic horse in France. Maybe, Lucile, you have some idea on this?

Lucile:

Yeah, I think it's also, you know, when you start riding as a kid in France, is that you don't really get to... I mean, except if you know someone that is into Icelandic horses, you're not straight away proposed to ride Icelandic horses. It's not so many horses in France, so it's not known so well by people. And also because of, I'd say, maybe the size of the Icelandic horse, it's more thought of as a kid's horse, maybe. I mean, I know that when I was riding sports horses, like French breeds, there's this moment when you're maybe 14, 15 years old, where your horse riding instructor would tell you, well, now it's time for you to quit ponies and get onto big horses. You know, and it's very different from Icelandic horses and Icelandic riding, because of course Icelandic horses are made for everyone, like kids to adults. You have fast horses, slow horses, easy horses, harder horses to ride, and you have everything in the breed. But in France, it's not, I mean, the pony, as it's qualified, is really more axed to kids and like special equestrian sports, we'll say. And I think it's also a part of, in the head of people, also because it's not so known by French riders. And I think it's one of the challenges of the FFCI also, to get to make people know better the ice and the course and get into it.

Lionel:

And to do that, do you send riders and horses to... I don't know, I guess there is a Paris Horses show. Do you send representatives to just get the breed known more and more?

Lucile:

Yeah, exactly. We haven't talked about this yet on the podcast, but every year there are several shows, some that are more or 100% on two horses, and some are more agricultural, but both tend to drain a lot of people. So you have one in Paris, you have the traditional annual French, French Fair of agriculture in Paris, which is very big and you have all kinds of animals. But the Icelandic horses, we usually try to send an Icelandic horse there. If I mean, it depends always on the will of the French riders to actually candidate for this. But we usually have someone that is willing to go. We usually also have people on Equitat Lyon, which is a big horse event in Lyon that occurs every year. And last year, we also had Icelandic horses in the south of France and at this a bit smaller Equatrian fair. There was this show that was created only with Icelandics around maybe five to 10 Icelandic horses, which was until now kind of unheard of. It's not so often that you have that kind of event that happens, but it was quite successful and gave a bit more visibility to the breed with the gates and also the history of the Viking horse. So it was interesting. And so, yeah, sometimes we have a bit different things that happen like these that are nice to promote the breed.

Lionel:

And this is held by the French Federation. This is held, or you have the contact to send people there I guess?

Lucile:

Yeah, I think so. It depends on the FFCI for the promotion of the horse. It's a kind of a partnership, because of course, we as the FFCI don't have riders or don't have horses as such, but yeah, it's a partnership with riders and stables that want to participate.

Lionel:

Thank you both for being here with us today, and thank you everyone for listening. This was the last episode of our second season. We will come back very soon with a new season, with even more guests and stories to tell. Please like, subscribe, comment on your favorite podcast platform. And before leaving you, we would like to mention that you can follow us on Instagram, the FFCI as well. I have an Instagram account if you want to see French horses, French people riding Icelandic horses. You can follow us on Facebook. FFCI has a Facebook page, I believe. But for us, it's The Tölt Tales for more news and stories. Thank you, Caroline and Lucile, for talking to us today. Goodbye.

Lucile:

Well, thank you.

Caroline:

Thank you very much. Goodbye.

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